[FEAT BC Admin]

In this discussion area, please feel free to share your experience in implementing A.B.A. programs in the school system. We would particularly like to hear from those parents who converted their school teams to A.B.A. We’d like to hear the nightmares as well as the success stories.

Any insight that can be shared by school-based special education assistants to help parents would also be very meaningful.

Topic

[Stephen Paperman]

To anonymous, the mystery school district employee who feels she can trash the parents who belong to this organization, and the therapists who have devoted themselves to the extremely difficult task of helping our children:

You make me sick. The fact that there are people like you working in the school system proves without a shadow of a doubt just how big a fight we have on our hands. You have exposed your malice, your ignorance, your blatant lack of anything resembling a clue. It is completely pointless to try to educate you, since clearly you couldn't find the truth with both hands and a roadmap, but I will endeavor to enlighten you a little anyway. You are no doubt a lost cause, but perhaps some of the people you work with are still salvageable human beings.

You say, "I like the fact that you try to pass off a therapist as someone who has full qualification's in therapy. You make it sound like it is someone with huge education. My understanding is that a therapist is cheap labour that you get for 8 dollars an hour, and train like a dog to do tricks with your child."

My child's therapists have been trained by fully qualified Lovaas ABA experts, most of whom took their own training directly under Lovaas at UCLA. Some of them have degrees in Psychology, others are working on them. All of them have the training and education necessary to implement the medical treatment plans designed by my child's medical professionals. All of them work directly under the continuous supervision of my experienced and accredited consultants. What they charge me for their services is none of your business. Yes they are underpaid, because it is impossible to put a price on what miracles they accomplish.

You say, "And only when they have done so many hours, Again these are hours done to learn to do assorted tricks, then you call them therapist. No formal education is given to a therapist from any recognized school. A therapist is someone you get to work for you for a couple of years, then when you have them trained to work with your child, and your child only and get them to work under your direction, and the direction of your consultant, and they have so many hours,,, then you call them "Therapist" but yet they still have no formal training."

Let me explain something — no matter how many times you repeat a lie, it is still a lie, and you are still a liar. True, as Hitler proved, if you repeat a lie enough, you will get people to believe you. I guess that is your hope. It is a lost hope. You will fail. I will make it my life's work if necessary to see that you fail. For my child's sake, and for the sake of every other child with autism. But just for the record, a ABA therapist is someone who is trained to perform ABA treatment, under the direction of medical professionals, as opposed to Special Education Assistants, who are trained to assist teachers and have absolutely no medical training whatsoever, at least not as a requirement. Industrial First Aid and WHIMIS don't count. Neither do one-day sessions with employees of POPARD or Gateway or Laurel House or any of the other social service agencies who have had tax money shoveled at them over the years by successive governments, including this one.

You say, "And when your child goes to school You say "I need my therapist to be the SEA. because they will regress and blah blah blah blah blah." You will say that even if you get a great SEA that has tons of experience and qualifications. And lets be very frank,,, it's because then you don't have to pay for this therapy anymore,,, the school district can pay it with Special Ed funds. You use tactics like "My child's therapist is the only trained person, my child will deteriorate if the same service isn't given… And by the way,,, I am going to trash any SEA that works with my child to prove my point" Even if my child is adapting to the new SEA, I will trash them because that is the philosophy of this big organization FEAT that feeds this junk to people that buy in to it."

When my child went to school, I said, "My child has a medical condition and a medical treatment plan and whomever is hired to be my child's TA will have to be trained in the medical protocols necessary." The school district posted the job and the person who was hired met the criteria. She was indeed a great SEA with tons of experience — in autism, which was the biggest criterion. People with tons of experience in baby sitting children at day cares and degrees in "early childhood education" have no relevant experience in autism by those qualifications. I also know of two or three parents who have found great SEAs within the school system. Again, these were young women who had taken the time to get proper training in autism treatment, and who committed to working for what was best for the child, not what was most convenient for the school or the teacher or the union.

You say, "Believe me,,, This is my stand,,, and the stand of many other persons I have spoken to."

I have no doubt this is your stand. And I think you know ours. Be aware that the days of you and those "many other persons" are numbered. You can feel free to work as teacher's assistants if you can find schools which need them and are willing to pay for them. You will never work as a member of my child's autism treatment team, inside or outside the school system.

You say, "And Unions have nothing to do with it. You like to think that is what is is but it has nothing to do with it at all."

Right. And pigs can fly. I've heard the CUPE union leaders and teachers union leaders talk. They have a lot to do with it, and we know that too.

You say, "School district's blame it on unions, it's easier for them that way…."

Interestingly, I've never heard a school district blame things on unions. They occasionally show us a union contract and explain where their hands are tied, and since I am trained in the ability to read a contract, I can say that indeed many of them have negotiated poorly in the past. Fortunately for our children, no contract can be enforced which violates the law of the land, including the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. See Auton et al.

You say, "1. " They don't want you to tell them how to Educate."

Well, it's a red letter day — you finally say something that's true. It's irrelevant to the topic at hand, but it is true.

You say, "2. "School districts don't want to be put in a situation where they can be sued by you using information supplied to you by your Therapist"

I suggest you read the relevant statutes before making legal judgments. People and organizations can be sued for breaching agreements and fiduciary responsibilities and laws in general, and where the information comes from is irrelevant. I can put YOU on a witness stand and I guarantee you will tell the truth to the man or woman in the robes sitting next to you, because you will know that if you don't, I will see your behind resting behind bars for perjuring yourself, and a person with a criminal record can no longer keep their cushy unionized sinecure with the school district. School districts hide what they don't want people to find out much higher than your level.

You say, "3. "Your Therapists loyalty will be with you, and not the employer."

My therapists are loyal to my child, as they should be, as they are ethically and morally and legally required to be.

You say, "4. For all anyone knows, you could have a sex offender working with your child, and then you put other children at risk of being exposed to untrained " uneducated " Therapist."

Now you are not only lying, but disgusting. As you, an employee of the school district should know, all SEAs and others working at the schools must pass the same background check. If there are any children being exposed to untrained uneducated dangerous individuals, I would suggest that you are the one who may fall into one or all of these categories. I certainly know my child's therapists do not.

You say, "SEA's are worth every penny they make. Most nowadays have 2 years education, have a good understanding of most needs of a child, in the education system. For specific Medical needs qualified nurses are provided to get them up to speed."

Wow. How impressive. A whole TWO years education, you say? And a "good understanding" of the needs of a child, whatever that is supposed to mean. Oh, and then the great training they receive from "qualified nurses" to "get them up to speed." Thank you, oh anonymous one, I needed a good laugh. It just so happens I know a few nurses who work in and for the school system. You know what? They have assured me they would NEVER presume to try to train anyone in autism therapy, or in dealing with the needs of a child with autism in general. Nurses in the school system are there either for general medical assistance when needed, or as specifically assigned to a medically fragile child and directed by doctors on that child's medical case.

You say, "You say this is a medical procedure, and I hear yea,,, but not very many people that do the front line work have medical training,,, they are TRAINED to do tricks like DOGS They are the lowest paid in your multi level marketing and driven by Big Corperate America that is only after $$$$$$"

I'm not even sure I understand what you're trying to say, but it's certainly offensive, and completely inane, and probably actionable. I would dearly love to see you stand up in front of my therapists and accuse them of being part of a fraudulent scheme perpetrated by unnamed corporations in the United States, as you just have. I would then be happy to haul your sorry behind into court and see to it that your slander and libel receive the proper treatment before the courts of the land.

You say, "thank you"

No, thank YOU. Thank you for redoubling my resolve to fight people like you to my last breath. Thank you for reminding me that while there are indeed people in the school system who care, there are also misguided incompetents like yourself who I must ensure have no contact with my child, ever. And in my gratitude, let me give you a few nuggets of education which clearly were missed in those two years of quality training of yours:

1) When you are using a plural, you do not place an apostrophe between the word and the suffix "s." It's "districts," not "district's." Likewise for "qualifications" and the other ones you've misused.
2) When you are using a contraction, you DO use the apostrophe, as in "let's be frank," not "lets be very frank,,," — further you do not place three commas in a row for effect. One will do.

There are more, but I think you understand my point — your grammar and spelling are terrible. This is understandable and acceptable from we poor uneducated parents, but it is clearly not so for you expertly trained educators.

Now you may sit up and beg for a cookie, or you may go lie down in the corner with your snout to the wall. If I were training anyone like a dog, it would be the one who deserves that kind of treatment, and clearly, that is YOU.

S.P.

[Mike & Jean]

To the "anonymous school district employee". Thank you for your honesty and candor. It is very instructive; particularly for parents whose children are not yet in the school system.

To those parents I say…see what is in store for you and your child. This person might work in your school district, in your school, with your child (if they have enough seniority).

Are you worried yet?

Regards, Jean

[Deleted User]

Anonymous mainly because I have more people to protect than myself.

I'm not a parent.

I am an ABA therapist. It's fun. I've never been treated like a dog by any consultants or parents in my life. I also have two (that's right, TWO) University undergraduate degrees, one of them in Psychology. I read and study autism and ABA in many ways, both online and off. I dislike the insinuation that I am somehow unqualified to teach autistic children. I would never try to pass myself off as being truly qualified to create programming, either. I've only been at it for 3 years. (I'm a different person from the original Anon. SEA.)

I have worked as an on-call SEA for a year and a half, and will be applying for an entry-type SEA position in the fall. I hope I get it. If I don't, I will simply continue as I have been, as an in-home therapist for a couple of really great kids.

I currently work with the district for one of 'my kids', ensuring that the school program complements the home program, and vice versa. The SEA in this situation has worked on ABA teams in the past, and not only welcomes suggestions, but truly cares about the child and only wants the best. The parents accepted this solution after keeping their child at home for six months, during which time I did homeschooling. The situation will, thankfully, be reinstated in September – same SEA and continued correlation of home and school programming. In fact, the positive way in which this collaboration has panned out is going to benefit other children in this district next year, as we have somehow managed to prove that compromise does work. What this meant for us was, basically, let the parents have an SEA who actually has ABA training, and let the lead therapist or consultant from the home program be involved with – but not 100% in charge of – school programming and IEP planning. This way, the school gets to decide what academics and social skills (etc.) are important for the child to have at school, and the person from the home team can make sure that supplementary programming is provided at home. The person from the home team can also prove an important resource for the SEA and school personnel, as one would hope that the therapist or consultant will know the child better and be able to give hints as to what particular behaviours may indicate… not to mention the invaluable practice of writing social stories that will really work for the child in question.

Those of us who are working within the system are doing out best to show the districts and the schools that there really is a way to work together, for the benefit of all. We are striving to educate the teachers and other school personnel about the value of ABA, and doing our best to ensure that the principles of the child's program are being used in all situations, even if there is not a lot of 1:1 teaching going on.

You can call me SEA#3.

[David Chan]

Ya know,

I won't even get in to a literal joust with our
anonymous poster. There are many more
eloquent people on this board, you know who
you are……A_ _ _y.

Let 's just agree this isn't the right board for
you. So have a great summer. Sleep soundly
knowing that nothing will have changed for
autistic children because of your gallant
efforts. At the end of the day they are just
someone else's children.

Not Afraid to be Identified

David
Mr. P's Dad

[Deleted User]

Well I take offence to someone passing off as a therapist, and say they do therapy,,, when they don't even go to a school to learn it.
That is my point,,, you should find a new term.

[Louise Watson]

to anon at 5:13pm. First of all ABA is not a dog trick it happens to be medically neccessary treatment for our children.Second you obviosly do not have a child with autism. its posts like yours that make my blood boil, how can you judge what we teach our therapists when obviously you dont even now what the therapy is.As for the comment about our children regressing bla bla bla I feel sick right now to think there are people out there as close minded as this. We are the ones living this every minute of every day and obviosly its just a job for you so dont come on this board and post such crap. I sure hope wherever you are its nowhere that my son is going to be. I would rather train a dog to do ABA than someone with your attitude.I understand you may have qualifications but none are worthy of my son

[Deleted User]

Okay, I have listened and observed this board now for quite some time.

I love the way people felt they could Trash the SEA who thought she was being helpful.

I now have a few comments.

I am an employee of a school district. I am aware and very informed of all the problems that are going on in my district and others with the ABA / FEAT parents.

I am also very aware of the union issues that are going on as well. I do understand fully the battle you have with the district's.

But now here is a point of view that some people take, that I have not seen shared with this board.

I like the fact that you try to pass off a therapist as someone who has full qualification's in therapy.

You make it sound like it is someone with huge education.

My understanding is that a therapist is cheap labour that you get for 8 dollars an hour, and train like a dog to do tricks with your child.

And only when they have done so many hours, Again these are hours done to learn to do assorted tricks, then you call them therapist.

No formal education is given to a therapist from any recognized school.

A therapist is someone you get to work for you for a couple of years, then when you have them trained to work with your child, and your child only and get them to work under your direction, and the direction of your consultant, and they have so many hours,,, then you call them

"Therapist" but yet they still have no formal training.

And when your child goes to school

You say
"I need my therapist to be the SEA.
because they will regress and blah blah blah blah blah."

You will say that even if you get a great SEA that has tons of experience and qualifications.

And lets be very frank,,, it's because then you don't have to pay for this therapy anymore,,, the school district can pay it with Special Ed funds.

You use tactics like

"My child's therapist is the only trained person, my child will deteriorate if the same service isn't given… And by the way,,, I am going to trash any SEA that works with my child to prove my point"

Even if my child is adapting to the new SEA, I will trash them because that is the philosophy of this big organization FEAT that feeds this junk to people that buy in to it.

Believe me,,, This is my stand,,, and the stand of many other persons I have spoken to.

And Unions have nothing to do with it. You like to think that is what is is but it has nothing to do with it at all.

School district's blame it on unions, it's easier for them that way…. but the underlying real root of the reason is.

1. " They don't want you to tell them how to Educate."

2. "School districts don't want to be put in a situation where they can be sued by you using information supplied to you by your Therapist"

3. "Your Therapists loyalty will be with you, and not the employer.

4. For all anyone knows, you could have a sex offender working with your child, and then you put other children at risk of being exposed to untrained " uneducated " Therapist.

Put your kids in private school and then you have the choice of employee's and the private school can take the risk.

You as a parent have that choice if you don't like what the public schools have to offer,, go private. NO UNIONS IN PRIVATE / NO BS / you can get what you want.

SEA's are worth every penny they make. Most nowadays have 2 years education, have a good understanding of most needs of a child, in the education system. For specific Medical needs qualified nurses are provided to get them up to speed.

You say this is a medical procedure, and I hear yea,,, but not very many people that do the front line work have medical training,,, they are TRAINED to do tricks like DOGS

They are the lowest paid in your multi level marketing and driven by Big Corperate America that is only after $$$$$$

thank you
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

[Deleted User]

okay I am back had to change my pants after reading the article posted by Jean…was laughing so hard, well you know the rest…

hmmmm I guess someone better tell the teachers union and the EA union that the LAW says that no collective agreement supercedes the rights of an indivdual.

in other words your child has a RIGHT to have appropriate specialized medical supports in order to ACCESS public education and that the union's collective job security comes second to the individual's rights.

so they can poo poo about "contracting out" all they want…
all I can say is thank G_d for the LAW

I know about this subject quite intimately as it is a huge part of my case(s).

[Deleted User]

Hi everyone,

I, too, was horrified by Ms. Browns elitist opinions. I read in the Vancouver Sun last year, a letter from a Mr. Dodd (or Todd?)a teacher from Dawson Creek. He was listing his reasons for his opposition to parents making up part of the advisory council. One of his comments was:
"what teacher wants to listen to the advice of someone who works at Tim Hortons when deciding school policy".
Do teachers believe that if you are not teacher your opinions are worthless?
(Guess you wasted your time on that PhD from Stanford, Sabrina…who knew?!!!)
And who is to say that a worker in a fast food outlet would not be able to make a valuable contribution?
I agree that we need to stay polite, but DO NOT waver on what is proven to be the best for your child. We, as parents, need to collectively refuse the services of people like Ms. Brown. Do not let them be a part of your child's life.
I hear parents complaining about a certain person setting up shop in the Surrey school district and yet they let her sit in on their IEP meetings.
Don't let people who do not have the training create your child's IEP. As DOCTOR Richard Foxx says, if you let these people into the system and then bend to the pressure to use them, they will get a foot hold (an office and a staff) and then it will be almost impossble to remove them.

On a personal note, it is my belief that the overwhelming demise of the NDP was an effort also rid us of the power of the unions. I certain wanted to see their control gone. We need to let the unions, especially CUPE, know that they DO NOT speak for all British Columbians.
Sit down, Mr. O'Neil, and shut up!

[Deleted User]

Hi everyone,

I, too, was horrified by Ms. Browns elitist opinions. I read in the Vancouver Sun last year, a letter from a Mr. Dodd (or Todd?)a teacher from Dawson Creek. He was listing his reasons for his opposition to parents making up part of the advisory council. One of his comments was:
"what teacher wants to listen to the advice of someone who works at Tim Hortons when deciding school policy".
Do teachers believe that if you are not teacher your opinions are worthless?
(Guess you wasted your time on that PhD from Stanford, Sabrina…who knew?!!!)
And who is to say that a worker in a fast food outlet would not be able to make a valuable contribution?
I agree that we need to stay polite, but DO NOT waver on what is proven to be the best for your child. We, as parents, need to collectively refuse the services of people like Ms. Brown. Do not let them be a part of your child's life.
I hear parents complaining about a certain person setting up shop in the Surrey school district and yet they let her sit in on their IEP meetings.
Don't let people who do not have the training create your child's IEP. As DOCTOR Richard Foxx says, if you let these people into the system and then bend to the pressure to use them, they will get a foot hold (an office and a staff) and then it will be almost impossble to remove them.

On a personal note, it is my belief that the overwhelming demise of the NDP was an effort also rid us of the power of the unions. I certain wanted to see their control gone. We need to let the unions, especially CUPE, know that they DO NOT speak for all British Columbians.
Sit down, Mr. O'Neil, and shut up!

[Author]

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