[FEAT BC Admin]

In this discussion area, please feel free to share your experience in implementing A.B.A. programs in the school system. We would particularly like to hear from those parents who converted their school teams to A.B.A. We’d like to hear the nightmares as well as the success stories.

Any insight that can be shared by school-based special education assistants to help parents would also be very meaningful.

Topic

[Deleted User]

To;

By Anonymous on Sunday, June 15, 2003 – 12:52 am:

Re: ABA in school

I would hazard a guess (no personal experience in this

"If I managed to teach even *one* of those people *one* vital thing that will help them that will help them as they move through life, then
that is enough. If I managed to be a support to parents when they were ready to give up or were just having a bad day, then that is enough. If I managed to (as I did more than once last month) comfort a sibling in a moment of distress, so that they knew they weren't alone and I'm
really not there just for their strange brother/sister, then that is enough."

you are nice

you provide comfort

you provide support to parents ready to give up

you are not just their for the strange brother or sister

you managed to teach one vital thing to one of THOSE people

"while dreams of seniority and sugarplums danced through their heads"

[Deleted User]

Reread after posting (oops) and realized that I completely messed up a sentence.

"But even if I'm not, even if I for some reason quit working with the children I currently work with, I know I've made a difference in the lives of a number of lives – parents of autistic children, siblings of autistic children, classmates & friends of autistic children, and the autistic children themselves."

Should be:

"But even if I'm not, even if I for some reason quit working with the children I currently work with, I know I've made a difference in the lives of a number of individuals…" and so on.

(I may not have an English degree, but I do care about proper grammar and the like!)

-SEA3

[Deleted User]

Re: ABA in school

I would hazard a guess (no personal experience in this process or anything) that it's a lot more convoluted than just "Oh, here's an autistic child. Best outcome? ABA will give us that. Okay, let's make sure this kid has all the ABA s/he needs." Someday, maybe that will happen. We will all be overjoyed when that day comes – well, excepting the Anon SEA who expressed such bitterness and misinformation. When that day comes, it will be due to the efforts of parents, therapists, and, yes, SEAs and school beaurocrats who challenge the status quo and urge beneficial changes to ensure the children's rights to actual *education* are not being trod upon. *Until* that happens, I fail to see the point in wasting time and energy responding in anger to people who are simply trying to provide a somewhat rounded view of issues a lot of us know nothing about.

(Actually, could someone explain just *exactly* what is meant by "ABA in school"? I'm confused about what people mean; we may all be defining that differently, and that can't be good for amiable discussion.)

Re: Good/Bad SEAs

There are some truly horrible SEAs out there. The child for whom I work with the school (I am not her SEA, though I am on-call in her district) has had a series of such SEAs. In grade 1, they kept this child in a desk away from the other children, in the corner, with the SEA standing guard to make sure no behavioural disturbances occurred. In grade 2, once they finally had an ABA program up and running (at home only), this kid ranroughshod over her SEAs (she had 2) – pretending to be tired, or sick, to get out of work, or acting out so that they'd go for a walk instead of doing schoolwork. I came onto the home team midway that year, and I was appalled at the sheets that were being sent home – some of them were totally beyond the child's ability, yet they were supposedly being completed independently, and others were, quite frankly, insulting in how easy they were. The parents pulled their child from school after the teacher requested that I (as lead therapist) refrain from writing her and the SEAs helpful notes and suggestions of how to better help the child learn and do well in school – "Please keep the ABA at home" was the gist of the message (if not the exact wording). (There were other things, too, all related to politics and union stupidities.)

I am a therapist first, school board/district employee second(and I suspect possibly SEA1 is, as well). What matters most is what is best for the child. Unfortunately, as things stand right now, what is best for the child often takes backseat to what is best for the district/union.

The only practical advice I currently have for this situation is to try not to paint all SEAs with the same brush before you meet them. There are a number of great SEAs out there… perhaps fewer great than truly horrible, but there are great ones out there. The child I work with is lucky to have one of those great SEAs. Someday, should I choose to continue along the road to seniority within the school system, I hope I am counted among them.

But even if I'm not, even if I for some reason quit working with the children I currently work with, I know I've made a difference in the lives of a number of lives – parents of autistic children, siblings of autistic children, classmates & friends of autistic children, and the autistic children themselves.

If I managed to teach even *one* of those people *one* vital thing that will help them as they move through life, then that is enough. If I managed to be a support to parents when they were ready to give up or were just having a bad day, then that is enough. If I managed to (as I did more than once last month) comfort a sibling in a moment of distress, so that they knew they weren't alone and I'm really not there just for their strange brother/sister, then that is enough. If I managed to encourage a peer to reach out and find the ability to interact with someone who *is* different, in very fundamental ways, then that is enough.

And if I managed, just once, to make an autistic child smile *at me*, well, that's the world to me and I am blessed every day it happens.

-SEA3 (still Anon. because of the children and parents to protect)

[Deleted User]

To anonymous SEA who foamed at the mouth about the inadequacy of us "therapists":

You are incredibly uninformed but that aside, I would like to answer and clarify some of the comments you made. There is nothing I can say to change your opinions. That is a waste of my time. I will however voice my disagreement.

The term therapist is a bit antiquated in today's P.C. world. I would first remind you we are merely discussing a label, a person is not defined by their label but by their actions. My point, who cares about a title? The term therapist originally comes from the Lovaas clinic as this was the label used. Today, we are getting away from that but terminology sticks and people still use it. Personally, I now use the term Behavioural Instructor, this is what one Consultant I work with uses.

Second, I find your comment that we are uneducated cheap labour offensive. I have a B.A., 3 years of experience, many hours of one on one training with a variety of different consultants and have attended several workshops, conferences etc. I recognize that I have a long way to go in my training and for that reason I pursue every training opportunity that comes my way. Do you? I have several acquiatances who are SEA's and they do not pursue any additional training. Because there are no Canadian Universities offering an applicable Masters degree in ABA, I do not yet have this qualification. I will one day. I will relocate to the U.S., spend large quantitities of money on a masters and hopefully return.

Unlike many of the SEA's I know, I spend a vast majority of my free time reading up on theory, terminology and current research on developments in ABA and Autism. I pay out of my own pocket to attend workshops, seminars and conferences.

I looked into the SEA program once. THe program I examined had a 4 hour workshop/seminar on autism. Perhaps that has been expanded to 1 day now. Wow. I can imagine that in that one day filled with coffee breaks and long lunches there must be a tonne of information on Autism. Apparently there is little if any information on ABA. You clearly know absolutely nothing about it. And I know there is absolutely NO information presented on Discrete trial instruction, despite the scientific data that backs it up. I'm curious, what methods of treatment did you learn about in your training? Or did they discuss treatment at all. Perhaps you just learned about the glories of inclusion, pec schedules and maybe a little sensory integration as well? And yet YOU are more qualified to support a child within a medically perscribed ABA program than I.

Interesting.

I have met many SEA's. I've attempted to train several as well. I've met a few wonderful SEA's who were excellent supports for the children with Autism they worked with. All were also working on ABA teams. I've met some completely untrainable aides as well. Perhaps they were excellent candidates to work with a child who was NOT in an ABA program but they were complete failures at ABA.

what disturbs me most about SEA's like you and the majority I've worked with (this does not apply to those of you who excel at your jobs, working hard to work with the child's needs and are willing to learn about ABA) is their disinterest in learning. Their is a lack of understanding of why this therapy is important, why it is effective and why continuity is critical. Instead there is this assanine perspective that they in all their two years of "education" (and not even a university degree) have the ability to make decisions for an autistic child's needs.

Even instructors/therapists/behavioral interventionist's know this is ridiculous. We follow the directions and guidance of our consultant. They have Masters Degrees. We do not make the decisions about any child's programs or interventions. We recognize that this is serious and that one must have the appropriate qualifications to do so. Do you recognize this? Does your union? Apparently not.

As for my pay… I don't get paid $8 an hour. With my experience, I do get paid more. I don't get paid what you get paid, I'm not part of a union. I could join one and work for a Government Behavioural Intervention program if I was so inclined. I could start at $20 an hour and probably get benefits. Maybe this is what you get paid… does that make you more qualified? I've met some BI's. They do not have the training I have. They do not get the support I get from my consultants.

I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I worked for such a program. What I do is important. The children I work with have made and continue to make incredible, MEASURABLE gains. I have data to back up every gain, every growth, every challenge and every success each child I work with goes through. Do you? Accurate data?

I'm willing to work for a lower wage knowing that what I do is the right thing to do. The service I provide is much needed and I work hard at what I do. I don't need to make $20 to feel good about what I do. My reward is in the progress that my clients make every day. Is that why you do your job?

I doubt it. Your complete lack of compassion, your coldhearted comments about parents and worst of all these children speak otherwise. I hope none of my clients ever have to suffer through a day with you as their SEA.

Your comment about children regressing "blah blah blah" is extremely offensive. Regression is a serious issue. A child who makes CONSIDERABLE, measurable gains only to enter a hostile school environment with a poorly trained and inadequate aide, and yes I know of many documented cases to back up this statement, and who then regresses is a child who has lost time. This is not something to scoff at or to blow off with statements like blah blah blah. Your incredible disregard for the welfare of these children makes me sick. Your lack of professaionalism is astounding but not surprising. I've seen people like you before. People like you don't last on the teams that I run.

And finally, your comment that if parents don't like the system, they should send their child to private school. Many do. If it wasn't for the cost of running an ABA program $40,000 to $60, 000 a year, perhaps more would. Private schools have tuitions, parents are required to pay part or all of their aide's wages and this is not always an option for families. Too bad, if they did their wouldn't be jobs for people like you.

Instead parents will fight people like you. THey will deal with your insecurities, cold hearted comments and lack of understanding. They will deal with poorly designed/written education plans for their children, they will fight to have their child's medically necessary treatment included during school, they will take your system to court. And they will win.

The tide is turning. Perhaps you can't feel the swell rising against you, but it is about to crash on your head.

signed
an instructor

[Deleted User]

To SEA 1 and the very dedicated, resourceful parents on this chat who are working so hard to have their childs ABA program carry over into the school setting.

SEA 1;
As a parent I thank you for showing your true colours. My child has a right to medical treatment for his/her disease (autism). My child also has a right to benefit from education services provided within a school setting. As a parent I have an obligation to see that my childs rights are realized. The Ministry of Ed guidelines for Autism states that Districts MAY choose to employ an SEA – they aren't bound to do so, they may choose to do so. SEA's do not have any 'right' to 'work' with autistic children. Therefore there is no logical rational whatsoever for a parent to waist one precious moment considering your needs. You are just another self serving district employee who holds his/her employment more precious than the mental health of children and more precious than the basic rights of humanity that govern our society. After all you are asking us to deliberately compromise the quality of our childs mental health to preserve your employment opportunities as well as to cater to the unbalanced sensitivities of self serving school district politics.

To parents;
A word of caution, we all face obvious opposition in realizing the most beneficial arrangement for our child within the school system. I am growing increasingly concerned that many of us may be setting our selves up for increased adversity from our districts and may be giving them a large stick with which to beat us in regards to non union therapists and SEA's working as therapists.
We have had an SEA 'trained' as a therapist for our child. The problem wasn't the therapist though but our ABA provider. To date we have next to nothing to show in terms of training documents, progress reports, or evaluations that effectively document our therapist's level of proficiency in delivering ABA to our child. Nor is there any documented evidence of truly objective analysis of our childs behaviour (learning, communicative, social, maladaptive) within the school setting or any science based process of providing intervention in these areas. In a nutshell we do not believe our consultant has shown due dilligence or for that matter an honest effort at providing the standard of care expected of someone who claims to be a responsible and respectful provider of Lovaas ABA therapy. It takes a lot more than ABC sheets, data sheets of discrete trial teaching, and some general recomendations and ideas to replicate the quality of treatment defined by Lovaas. We must be careful to ensure our demands to have 'medically necessary treatment' be accomodated within the school setting be paired with ample evidence of SCIENCE based programming and stringent quality control of those delivering intervention. Is your consultant maintaining the level of quality controls that would hold up to scrutiny by his or her most professional peers? Are you as a consumer and a parent demanding a high enough standard of attention to staff performance and programming? If not you may be setting up your childs school program for weak results, substandard staff performance, and a lack of accountability. In the school setting we must conduct our treatment programs with the highest level of accountability, objective decision making, and professionalism lest we arm our detractors with evidence of mediocrity.

[Sara White]

I realize that most of the discussion driven by the Anonymous SEA is mostly over, but I felt it necessary to point out a couple more interesting points in the posting:

1. I find it very curious/confusing that it is OK and infact even acceptable for a SEA to be brought up to speed by a qualified nurse for children with specific medical needs, but that this same procedure (i.e., for a therapist to be educated in an on-going manner by a qualified professional) is not acceptable for behavior therapist.

2. I'm also very curious about which corporation in Big Corporate America is bank rolling this whole conspiracy, because I definitely want a piece of that action. I've worked in both Canada and in many states in the US and have yet to find a program that is funded by a private corporation spouting out propoganda (I guess I've really been missing the boat:) I also doubt that parents would be spending large amounts of their own money (in the range of $40 to $60 thousand dollars per year) if there were some multilevel marketing scheme out there that would pay for it!

3. With regards to the comment "And lets be very frank,,, it's because then you don't have to pay for this therapy anymore,,, the school district can pay it with Special Ed funds." … isn't that the way it should be? If it's medically necessary it would infer that ABA is the treatment of choice for autism. If it is the treatment of choice/the only effective treatment shouldn't it be delivered in an educational setting as well? Granted if parents don't like it they can choose to enroll their children in private schools, but it seems like it's just that attitude that has lead to public schools being viewed as substandard and nonprogressive institutions of education that you enroll your children in only if you can't afford anything better. Just a thought.

You seem to be accusing parents on this list as being brainwashed somehow by the all powerful and all mighty FEAT (wouldn't it be nice:). I view them as well-educated (regardless of their level of formal education) powerful advocates for their children with autism. I have worked in this field for approximately seven years now and for at least four of those have been involved in designing behavioral programs for children with autism. I have also participated in several IEP's and have seen children with similar characteristics get offered two entirely different educational programs depending on the parents that are involved in the process. The old adage "the squeaky wheel gets the grease" really does hold true in the education system (at least in my experience). I'm not saying that parents should alienate people in the process if it's not necessary, but I also don't think that they should be made to feel guilty if they have to take it to that level.

I think that anyone who is not the parent of a child with autism can not presume to even begin to comprehend the battles that parents go through on a daily basis. I admire each and every one of you and wish you the best of luck in what obviously continues to be an uphill battle.

[Deleted User]

Hello everyone, this is anonymous SEA number 1.

After much consideration, I have come to an opinion in the matter. I have been erroneous in saying that I am on anyone’s side. I wish I could take that back but I suppose I will just have to chalk it up to being young, naïve and overzealous. As an ABA therapist, my sympathies rest with the families of children with autism who just want to see their children get better. I understand your side of the fight; I appreciate what you are up against. However, as an SEA, an aspiring teacher and a daughter of teachers, I must say that I feel strongly that the School Boards are careful of ABA for good reason. As you all know full well, they have many issues to consider before the implementation of such programming. How would it work? Who would be in charge of what? Where do the resource teachers fit? Who will sue them next? Who will lose their jobs? Who should they protect? The list goes on and on. Everyone here, and I mean EVERYONE, because NO right-minded teacher likes to see struggling kids struggle more, agrees that the kids are most important, but, yes there is a but, who looks out for those of us working for those kids? What type of training do ABA therapists have? Where do thier sympathies lie? ho will they really be working for? Who insures that teachers, ABA therapists, SEA’s, Principals, and resource teachers all work together cohesively and with result? This is where the unions get involved; and where unions get involved, things get messy. One must also realize that job climate is not so friendly for many teachers and SEA’s right now. There are many cutbacks occurring and this affects this process immensely. I know what you’re thinking, how can they think of their jobs where children are involved? Let me ask you this. Please try and put yourself in their position, set your feelings aside for one moment and look at this objectively. How would you feel if your job was threatened? How would you react? I guess what I’m saying is that there are many sides to consider in this. How can we work TOGETHER to come to a solution?

Another question for you guys. Does anyone know anything more about this new school that Ms Clark spoke of? Which special needs are to be inducted into the school? What type of teaching will occur there?

Thanks so much for all your help and for the information you guys have shared with me (especially Sabrina, whom I've never had the pleasure of meeting but have heard such wonderful things about ;).

[Maureen St. Cyr]

For some reason, Nancy's posting of the URL is not making
it through the email, though it is readable here on the web
page. I'll try once more and see if it works. Most people
should be able to use this link, but if it doesn't work, start
it off in your web browser by typing "http://" and then
follow it with the rest, all in the single line with no spaces:

www2.news.gov.bc.ca/nrm_news_releases/
2003BCED0046-000581.htm

[Nancy Robins]

Re post Sorry some of the link got lost in the translation. Christy Clarks funding announcement link is as follows.

http://www2.news.gov.bc.ca/nrm_news_releases/2003BCED0046-000581.htm

[Nancy Robins]

Christy Clarks funding announcement link is as follows.

http://www2.news.gov.bc.ca/nrm_news_releases/2003BCED0046-000581.htm

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