[FEAT BC Admin]

In this discussion area, please feel free to share your experience in implementing A.B.A. programs in the school system. We would particularly like to hear from those parents who converted their school teams to A.B.A. We’d like to hear the nightmares as well as the success stories.

Any insight that can be shared by school-based special education assistants to help parents would also be very meaningful.

Topic

[Deleted User]

Has anyone had their School SLP sign for a Justification for Equipment form? My school SLP was told not to sign the form.

[Mike & Jean]

Thanks again to all the parents who attended and actively participated in the Medicare for Autism Now's "Getting it Done" advocacy workshop held last Saturday. We are very encouraged by this group's enthusiasm, motivation and determination. Your willingness to be filmed adds a very helpful dimension to our documentary film currently under production.

Thank you too, for answering our feedback questionnaire. Based on the responses, 100% of attendees said they would highly recommend this workshop to others. Hmmm…to that end our next workshop is currently being planned – so stay posted for details about when and where.

To see what parents said about the "Getting it Done" advocacy workshop or to find out how to get involved – go to: http://www.medicareforautismnow.org

To quote our friend and tireless, parent advocate, David Chan: "Fight the good fight people"

[Christine Bateman]

Dear Parents

Our son will be attending Kindergarten this September at Leigh Elementary in Coquitlam.

If anyone has any experience with this school regarding how their SEAs are, how flexible they are in accommodating needs of our kids, how open they are to include behaviour consultant's input or anything else that's important for us to know, we would be glad to hear.

Any advice you could give us on how best to deal with the Coquitlam School Board is greatly appreciated.

Please email me at catgirl@shaw.ca

[Dave Collyer]

Hi folks,

I hope everyone is seeing this conversation as a set of issues to be talked about and not as personal attacks… it's how I am viewing them.

1.Observation: From my perspective "Hewko" is NOT the touchdown our collective initial hopes and hype made it out to be. Reality – it is a single ruling focused on remediating the issues found in the Hewko's situation. It is NOT a new law or statute. It is not a Charter revision entrenching rights. It is a single example of Tort Law that might be utilized and should lend great weight to your case should one litigate or perhaps during an appeals process under Section 11 of the school act. IMO Hewko can also be utilized as a back ground or context when discussing issues and negotiating with your local district. Alone it is not a guarantee. Alone it means next to nothing as Districts entrench and react to litigation threats by simply withdrawing from the discussion (they know what litigation costs… don't even go there unless you mean it and have a big war chest of CASH). As such it is FAR better IMO to talk with your districts. Develop policy… just as Surrey and Victoria districts have done. Work in partnership. Work with the child as the centre of the discussion (as Dave Chan suggests… dur… how quickly that point is lost once the other factors and political agendas come into play… refocus the discussion on the child or children… ). Amazing things can be done. Just undertook to hire a short term replacement for our son's SEA who was injured falling after-hours. So far… no roadblocks and only assistance. Process based on policy should completed soon. Aron, our son, remains the focus of the discussion.

2. Question: What has changed since Victoria and Surrey worked to develop policy? From my perspective… not much… and every thing. Every thing has changed as now there is a formal process to bring ABA into the schools in these two districts. It has been acknowledged and demonstrated as possible and workable. Huge! Massive! Celebrate this. Having made this point… also recognize that not much has changed within these two districts… prior to policy development parents had to negotiate on a case by case basis…advocate, negotiate, appeals, and even litigate. Guess what… you can still do that in Surrey and Victoria. EVERY decision made at the school or district level is appealable. If they shut you out and you feel that you have a valid argument that the school based plan is not appropriate… you can go there. Appeal. Same as before Justice Koenigsberg made her ruling in 2006… on that note… no revolution in services in any district that I know of as a result of Hewko. 5 years and counting. Surrey and Victoria… where else? Nanaimo has a job description posted but not much going on (??? ). North Van had some grumblings about VB-ABA happening I think… anywhere else working things out?

3. Question: When you hire a new therapist what do you look for? Do you look for experience, depth of knowledge, education, good references (which will ultimately express depth of experience and knowledge). I know I do and… well…I suspect and hope that the school boards do the same sort of thing, and from my perspective the "1000 hours" is an effort to capture exactly that – experience and knowledge. As an aside here in Victoria (and I think in Surrey) the "1000 hours" is also enhanced by a skills evaluation matrix which is completed by the Consultant and Parent.

Can the 1000 hours issue be a problem? YOU BET… During the hiring process for the 2010-11 school year our "candidate" for our son's SEA worker was lacking hours. She frankly was excellent but lacked "time in the field". We negotiated a variance on policy by satisfying the District that she had the requisite skills and knowledge. We also undertook to have any "growing edges" addressed by having both our consultant and program coordinator available when needed and as needed to offer support at the school. In our conversations we came to the 1000 hour issue.. and addressed it for what it is… an effort to capture skills and knowledge… if there are other avenues to ensure that the requisite skills exist then I found the District was willing and able to flex re policy. Focus was on Aron.

4. re Choice and 1000 hours. I get it I do… we faced the same issue and found a way to address it. I do see the value in the "1000 hour" threshold though. It is simply an effort to capture "excellence". Once an employee of a district the SEA remains an employee. Families move on. The employee has a right to remain. Labour Laws… what do we want? An SEA who is in the system as a family new to ABA referred a home based therapist to the school system… when… they were new to ABA and unable to tell the difference from a skilled ABA practitioner vs. a really great baby sitter? There has to be some criteria. If not 1000 hours what? What should the criteria be? A referral from a parent who lacks knowledge (they exist… here and there… lol). I know when we first began ABA with Aron I hired poorly in two cases… once for a consultant and once for a therapist. They seemed to know what was what… and I knew not much even with a degree in Psych. that focused on Behavioralism. If not 1000 hours… WHAT criteria do you think the District should adopt? I simply do not see any District simply accepting just any old person the parent suggests… not gonna happen IMO in a systematic way. I don't want it to happen. Excellence is what is needed. Capture it for me. If not 1000 hours … what?

5. re Instructional Control. Again, it is a function of the programs in place and the skills the practitioner possesses. A strong candidate can establish instructional control quickly. This is very different then "learning on the job". The skills, knowledge and experience captured in 1000 hours should be strong… such a practitioner will learn the nuances of the programs quickly, adapt and adopt strategies while the consultant ensures instructional fidelity across environments. YES there will be a testing period which is always such awesome fun… but this is not "learning on the job".

6. re Home Based Therapists… the sad part is when the become School Based therapists… they are NO LONGER our employees. They take direction from the classroom teacher, principal, and or non enrolling Spec Ed teacher. It is key to work with these people to see that the IEP is developed so as to include School ABA programming. It is no longer a hone program… it is a school program… in our situation SCHOOL programs now come home… not the other way around. Trippy. :0)

Have a good one.

[Jenn Ralph]

Well said Dave!!!
Thanks, again, for putting it all into perspective.
Jenn

[David Chan]

Let me say first that I no longer have a child in the school system, but I have spoken to many, and attended meetings with parents who have children in the system.

When you have a child that is not factory as they say, you will have to advocate. We have a typical child in high school,and the degree of interaction with her school/teachers are minimal, that's because school is set up in a way, that really they impart information,and your kid takes it in and process it,and away you go.

I'd have to concur with what Ducky has to say about the relationship to the school to a point. No you don't go in with guns blazing, because it isn't civil. It is quite reasonable to say that 1000 hours is quite an arbitrary, but having said that in order for some kind of quantitative measure of work. Again it could be 1000 hours really crappy technique, who's to say.

As I see it the real bugaboo is continuity. Here's a kid that may be thriving in the home program, and is starting in school. The key to success here is the transference of skills acquired at home to the outside/school environment. How ever that works best. It seems only reasonable for a person from the home team work with the child in school, because who would be more familiar with the student than a person that is in fact working with him/her outside of school.

The 1000 hours is only a measure of understand of technique, but not the specific child. Having said that a person who's worked a 1000 hours would much more likely to be able pick up the programs from home and implement them at school, rather than a for lack of a better term lay EA.

The truth is everything is possible when the focus is on the kid. When a student/child is interfacing with school, and the world, there are other agendas at play.

There is the question of territory, who really is in charge of the school? Who is has the last say in the classroom ? What really is best for the student?

When the above questions are answered, very often, not intentionally, the student becomes the last thing in the equation.

I think what we really need to address is not 1000 hours, or advocacy, or lawsuits. By the time you invoke the Lawsuit thing, the battle is lost. The dynamics of the group of people working with the kid is changed,by the time you invoke the law. I don't want to do this with the kid, but we are compelled or mandated to do so, think about how motivated that worker is gonna be, whether it's a teacher, SEA, ABA SW. The focus is away from the student, and focused on the adults.

The focus should be on the making the kid successful, and how do we keep doing that? once you've got that dynamic going, then the whole picture changes. The students progress becomes this really cool project that everyone wants to be a part of.

I think that the hardest piece of the puzzle is to get all the people involved, parents,school districts, teachers, resource teachers, consultants, SEA's to be on the same page. We as a collective is there because we want to nurture and develop as much potential that the particular student has.

We really should stay focus on why do this integration business at all. It's not about WCB claims, burnouts, IEP'••••'s about taking young citizens, and teaching them that they are a valued members of our community. We do this because it is the MORALLY correct thing to do. During this process, an unintentional consequence occurs, the typical citizens in the classroom learns empathy, fortitude, perseverance. How cool is that ?

Frankly this whole business of lack of resources thing is a bit of an embarrassment. It is not about resources, and protocols, it's about WILL.

Doing the right thing for these kids, truthfully is really hard. This is where the WILL part comes in. Really hard shouldn't circumscribe what we do with them. So we give up? suspend them from school? H*ll NO. It's call fortitude. It's call sacrifice. And no, these qualities are not reserved for PARENTS, it for everyone who has contact with these kids. We work out the deal. If not in a board room, then in a court room.

Good stuff always takes hard work and patience. That's why grandma's home cooking always tastes better than Macdonald's

So stay focus, and fight the good fight

Dave,
Mr. P's Dad

[Ducky Piyo]

Thank you Jen and Joanna for your posts. I really appreciate your thoughts on my sharing.

Ducky

[Ducky Piyo]

Hi there,

Thanks for the great flow of posts and views coming through.

I am glad that Nancy has posted that in Surrey, their ABA Collaberation was established before the Hewko case was finished in the court.

Whether or not it would have made a difference, Parents will never know because there was no opportunity for the Parents to consider this.

Because Hewko did not exist these negotiations should never have been done for anyone's child to begin with. Why?

I had the opportunity to meet two Parents from Surrey at the April 30th Advocacy Workshop and they were frustrated that although they were doing ABA program, they were not able to be accomodated as you state, Nancy.

They do not want 1000 hours. They have ABA therapists that already have full instructional control over their child but could not work because of this policy that you made for them.

This is not in line with what you say in your previous post:

"Surrey parents advocated for their children just like anyone before us and anyone after us."

"For example, the choice to have criteria of 1000 hours was Surrey parents choice. It works for our district."

NOT all Parents were included about their child specific needs because 1000 hours is simply a one size fit all to please the union.

What type of meaningful consultation is this when there is no choice? Not everyone needs 1000 hours of instructional control. Some children require less.

So I am not offending anyone because it seems that it does not work in your distict.

Of course it is important to advocate. There is a common myth going around that when Parents advocate this means lawsuit. NOT TRUE!

When Parents advocate properly, effectively and respectfully, this can be a very meaningful process and yields good results. Parents that advocate properly will find they are respected in Schools and good relationships may sometimes be formed from School to Home.

It is not true that only ABA therapist off the home program should be hired in to the school as the child's EA. If there are EAs already in the system that would like to train off a home program with the right attitude Parents may want this option. Training off the home team provides quality EAs. Individuals working with our children BEFORE they work with them at school is essential because this is where they will build instructional control and so their skill set matches the child specific needs.

I am not sure why would families not have ABA therapists? If they are running an ABA program they have therapists.

Maybe you can explain how instructional control happens in Surrey. I noticed your post did not shed much light on this area.

It is not correct to ask whether we need to abolish the CUPE in 5 or 10 years? I don't know where you got this from or because this is your personal view?

Your questions to ask about abolishing CUPE are misleading and paints Parent Advocates outside of Surrey as threats to unions. We don't need to abolish unions.

Our children deserve quality trained EAs because the ones that are not properly trained end up following the union standards and then we see cases like the one in Langley.

Please do not attack me because I share info with Parents on this board. I have not offended anyone including Roxanne Black. Although I have not met her, I heard that she has worked hard in the beginning with administrators in Surrey from another Parent and they are thankful for her work before.

I never indicated that Surrey does not advocate.

But you have indicated that there are no ABA Programs in districts outside of Surrey and that is misleading because you have discounted hard working Parent Advocates like myself without having set foot in my school.

Now who's imposing on who?

Piyo

[Jemma Lee]

I am posting the following message for a consultant who wishes to remain anonymous. (I am doing it as a gesture of friendship rather than endorsement.)

*~*~*~*~*~*~*

I am a consultant who has clients in many different school districts. I find that in districts like Surrey and Victoria, where there is a systematic acceptance of ABA, I am more welcome and my clients programs are gladly accepted and implemented. In other districts, even where the child has their own home therapist hired, there is animosity, resentment, and road blocking by other aides, by teachers, by the principal and by the integration teacher. In my experience, in Surrey, once the school team sees the work of the ABA SW they are greatly respected. And, the school works with the ABA SW to fully implement the child's program. In Surrey, I feel that I am as effective as I possible can be. In other districts, in some cases, I am 20% to 30% effective. In one case, I actually told the parent that they were wasting their money having me go into the school because I felt I was completely ineffective. I suggested that their resources would be better spent at home.

Firstly, it is important to get a highly skilled and committed ABA aide (whether or not from your home team), but secondly it is important to have a system in place that facilitates the implementation of individually designed ABA curriculum, where the aide is not resented and where ABA is accepted, from the top down. The systematic approach to ABA implementation in the the Surrey school system is what benefits ALL of the ABA students in Surrey, and what makes the ABA SW program so effective.

[Nancy Walton]

The Surrey District ABA SW program is actually in the spirit of Hewko, in that it gave parents meaningful consultations. So, I agree with Dave Collyer, we have nothing against Hewko. I would venture to say that Surrey decided to listen BECAUSE of Hewko (although the decision hadn't been reached yet, but the court case was sending a clear message).

For example, the choice to have a criteria of 1000 hours was Surrey parents choice. It works for our district. We have no intention of imposing our choice on your district, Ducky, so you don't have to offend us for making that choice. What we do hope for other districts is that they consult meaningfully WITH PARENTS to design what works best for their children. So that systemic changes can take place that benefits all ABA children in the district.

Surrey parents advocated for their children just like anyone before us and anyone after us. Roxanne was the best of them. It was thanks to Roxanne's advocating that they hired the therapists before the course was taken. If she was prickly in her post, it's because she may have felt offended by comments that imply we do not advocate (I think Dave Chan just got caught in the cross fire). I'd like to point out to you, Ducky, that Roxanne put countless hours into the Medicare for Autism campaign, including leaving her children behind to go across the country during the last federal election.

It is important to learn to advocate. Jean's course is important. I, personally, am heartened to see it fill up. Because, quite frankly, the other districts are not getting the point. And, because if a parent does get an SEA or an ABA SW who does not have instructional control we want the parents to know how to get things changed.

The hard decision for parents in districts without ABA programs is what do you want to advocate for? What kind of policy or system do you want in place? Or do you want to simply have the right to your own therapist (which means families who don't have therapists have to go without)? When you decide on what you want to fight for, you have think about what will this look like 5 years from now? Every therapist who gets hired into the system, can not be fired when you are through with them. Do you think we'll abolish CUPE in 5 years? In 10 years?

There are, perhaps, two forms of advocacy. Fighting for your own child and fighting for all our children. I have focused on fighting for all our children, because if I were to die tomorrow, there will be no-one out there advocating for my child. Having said that, if anything goes wrong with my child, while I'm still alive, I'll be there to fight for him.

[Author]

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