[Ducky Piyo]

[This post has been removed due to violation of FEAT BC Discussion Group rules.]

[Ducky Piyo]

[This post has been removed due to violation of FEAT BC Discussion Group rules.]

[Ducky Piyo]

[This post has been removed due to violation of FEAT BC Discussion Group rules.]

[Ducky Piyo]

Thank you Jen and Joanna for your posts. I really appreciate your thoughts on my sharing.

Ducky

[Ducky Piyo]

Hi there,

Thanks for the great flow of posts and views coming through.

I am glad that Nancy has posted that in Surrey, their ABA Collaberation was established before the Hewko case was finished in the court.

Whether or not it would have made a difference, Parents will never know because there was no opportunity for the Parents to consider this.

Because Hewko did not exist these negotiations should never have been done for anyone's child to begin with. Why?

I had the opportunity to meet two Parents from Surrey at the April 30th Advocacy Workshop and they were frustrated that although they were doing ABA program, they were not able to be accomodated as you state, Nancy.

They do not want 1000 hours. They have ABA therapists that already have full instructional control over their child but could not work because of this policy that you made for them.

This is not in line with what you say in your previous post:

"Surrey parents advocated for their children just like anyone before us and anyone after us."

"For example, the choice to have criteria of 1000 hours was Surrey parents choice. It works for our district."

NOT all Parents were included about their child specific needs because 1000 hours is simply a one size fit all to please the union.

What type of meaningful consultation is this when there is no choice? Not everyone needs 1000 hours of instructional control. Some children require less.

So I am not offending anyone because it seems that it does not work in your distict.

Of course it is important to advocate. There is a common myth going around that when Parents advocate this means lawsuit. NOT TRUE!

When Parents advocate properly, effectively and respectfully, this can be a very meaningful process and yields good results. Parents that advocate properly will find they are respected in Schools and good relationships may sometimes be formed from School to Home.

It is not true that only ABA therapist off the home program should be hired in to the school as the child's EA. If there are EAs already in the system that would like to train off a home program with the right attitude Parents may want this option. Training off the home team provides quality EAs. Individuals working with our children BEFORE they work with them at school is essential because this is where they will build instructional control and so their skill set matches the child specific needs.

I am not sure why would families not have ABA therapists? If they are running an ABA program they have therapists.

Maybe you can explain how instructional control happens in Surrey. I noticed your post did not shed much light on this area.

It is not correct to ask whether we need to abolish the CUPE in 5 or 10 years? I don't know where you got this from or because this is your personal view?

Your questions to ask about abolishing CUPE are misleading and paints Parent Advocates outside of Surrey as threats to unions. We don't need to abolish unions.

Our children deserve quality trained EAs because the ones that are not properly trained end up following the union standards and then we see cases like the one in Langley.

Please do not attack me because I share info with Parents on this board. I have not offended anyone including Roxanne Black. Although I have not met her, I heard that she has worked hard in the beginning with administrators in Surrey from another Parent and they are thankful for her work before.

I never indicated that Surrey does not advocate.

But you have indicated that there are no ABA Programs in districts outside of Surrey and that is misleading because you have discounted hard working Parent Advocates like myself without having set foot in my school.

Now who's imposing on who?

Piyo

[Ducky Piyo]

Hi

There have been replies about Instructional control a previous post and for Parents this has been some type of debate depending how one looks at it.

But Dr. Melvin deLevie answers it best:

Autism is a medical condition that requires its medical treatement of ABA.

Dr. Sabrina Freeman confirms that ABA is a medical treatment because…

ABA Lovaas **(Applied Behavioral Analysis) is THE scientifically proven medically necessary treatment for Autism.

** Choice of ABA is still the Parent's perogative and I think FEAT has been sensitive to this. But certainly nobody can deny ABA that was created by Dr. Lovaas is what put the acronym A.B.A. on the lips of people everywhere.

Dr. Melvin deLevie shared his expertise in that "we don't negotiate the dose of insulin for diabetics".

And so why is instructional control up for discussion?

Each child with Autism requires their appropriate individual dose of ABA treatment.

The identity of the EA including their ABA background is essential because they are delivering ABA medical treatment to our kids.

I say "Instructional Control" always because Hewko clarifies that

"On the job training is no substitute for having basic training"

Remember Instructional Control is not Functional Control. Babysitters are not qualified to deliver medcial treatments.

Piyo

[Ducky Piyo]

This posting was rather interesting?

"As a Surrey parent who has greatly benefited from the work of parents before me, I am dedicated to paying it forward by helping to "feed the system". Many other families in Surrey as well hire and groom therapists to go into the school system as ABA Support Workers.

Below…. this point caught my attention
***********************************************

"We sometimes lose therapists off of our teams when they enter the school system with another child but it is worth it to strengthen the ABA
community and have another child in the district receive appropriate support".

***********************************************

This is a very important piece of information.

Where is the instructional control? Perhaps in 15 hours of familiarization training? How does 1000 hours of someone else's child help with someone totally different?

I learned something new today.

Piyo

[Ducky Piyo]

Hi there,

I am pretty confused here why you all are so concerned about the Hewko. It's objective is to help our kids secure an education and not to foster an argument.

What works in one district does not work in another. One size does not fit all because so far nobody is sitting down to include any Parents in any districts since ABA was implemented in Surrey or Victoria.

There is no stroke of luck. A district implementing ABA in to the system have obviously worked out a two way street. It has to benefit both Parents and Districts. There is simply no free lunch people.

Each Parent that works so hard deserve to have choice!!!

You make choices over a cup of coffee, how you want your options on your car (if you're fortunate enough to buy new), and most have choice to pick their spouse, no?

So why wouldn't there be choice about accessing education? For 6 hours of the day, our kids are out of our control. We ought to choose wisely.

What is wrong with choice? What is acceptable to some Parents is not necessarily acceptable to other Parents.

I post to offer people info so they know what's out there and don't waste time. But I certainly don't appreciate the flow of emails against Hewko.

Regulation of support services is not here yet in BC. Yes even patchwork in various districts.

Parents are hard working individuals that deserve info/feedback to make a life altering choice for THEIR child. It certainly would help Parents that decide to uproot their entire household to move to a certain school or area because they believe this is a good school. It also helps desperate parents to know their struggle is not alone because there's many of us asking the same questions.

As a Parent that is also in our shoes, I am shocked at your tone of email to another Parent.

What we probably would like to know is why Mr. Ryan put ABA in to the system in Surrey. Maybe that would be helpful for all of us because it sounds like the most ideal situation.

ALL PARENTS with Autistic children would move heaven and earth to ensure a good quality education and appropriate support at school and in the community.

To be truly respectful of Autism and their families, CHOICE is absolutely necessary!

Thank you for allowing me to post my personal opinions.

Piyo

[Ducky Piyo]

P.S.

When I post this info it is to ENCOURAGE our Parents out there to not give up.

Conversations on the board like yours and mine will help the Parents do more research to see which path they want to take. These are necessary and healthy.

I am so glad you mentioned that these options for ABA were in place before Hewko. Exactly…so in a way it was limited to one way to get ABA.

Now there are more choices. I think the new parents are very fortunate to get to pick what they want for their child. I recall a time when there were no local ABA Consultants and nobody heard of Autism.

A common myth is that "fighting for your kids' right to ABA" means bringing guns or knives to the table". It can be a very reasonable and respectful experience.

Either way, lots of learning for Parents. Unless you have researched it and get first hand info, it is always going to be someone else's experience.

All the best everyone!

Piyo

[Ducky Piyo]

Hi Dave,

Thanks for your opinion. Great sharing!!! :-)

This is exactly the kind of conversation that should be out there.

With informed choices Parents will know what they want to do with their own kids….not the school. I am sorry but I do not agree with you all about a good District person because frankly the system has to change. Suppose there is a good person or two…..What if that good person moves on or retires? Who's listening then?

What do you mean Parents have no rights? Have a look at this Dave:

STATEMENT OF EDUCATION POLICY ORDER
BC Ministry of Education
Governance and Legislation Branch D-96 November 4, 2008

Parents: have the RIGHT and responsibility to participate in the process of determining the educational goals, policies and services provided for their children.

They have a PRIMARY RESPONSIBILITY to ensure that children are provided with the healthy andsupportive environment necessary for learning. They have a responsibility to help shape and support the goals of the school system and to share in the tasks of educating their young.

THE SCHOOL ACT says

[272] The School Act (the “Act”) allocates authority and responsibility among teachers, school boards, the Minister of Education, the Lieutenant-Governor in Council and PARENTS.

If Parents don't have rights then what kind of society are we in? It is our children and we are ultimately responsible for them and when they are 18, WE Parents are the one that will be there to see them transition to adult world.

These are our kids no matter where they are in the community. Parents will always have the ultimate right. I don't need to ask for permission, this is automatic.

If we are not confident of who we are as a Parent and our role, then who will help our children?

As I have said in previous postings, no offence to the people that are working their butts off and want a better future for our kids….but most of them have their hands tied because they have to answer to someone above them.

Your opinion is great to start a good and healthy conversation but we must be open to look at ALL THE OPTIONS of implementing ABA and not just one way…

Just as FEAT has not said Lovaas or highway. We FEATERs respect that there are families that practice differenty types of ABA programs.

As one of the other Surrey FEATers noted, not all Districts are interested in listening.

EXACLY..That's when you remind them of Hewko not wait for lady luck to give you someone that listens from the system.

There's a give and take here. I do not believe that the Districts out there will just give you ABA and someone just woke up and decided today's the day I will hand out ABA to my students. There were compromises and sacrifices. There's no free lunch.

I post this to share with all parents because often they think moving to one district works over another. That's what causes it to be even more difficult to advocate because divided we fall. Besides it is not fair to other districts to house more of the cross boundary students so as in a recent article, Surrey students are lacking so many services although the population of students are much higher than other nearby districts.

There is nothing wrong with sharing info so that parents make their OWN choice. I did not have the knowledge you all have so I hope to share so others do not make any wrong turns in their choice.

Only an informed choice is a RIGHT choice.

Thank you Dave.

Piyo

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