[Deleted User]

I noticed awhile back someone was interested in starting a thread re school's and SEA's

I think the trap I see happening all across Canada that parents are falling into is this;

"I must work with what is there."
"We should build on existing structure already in place"
"But the union…."

why is this thinking and notions perpetuating discrimnitory actions by governments and MOE's and subsequently individual school boards and inevitably schools and school staff

Medical support services for children who have autism is NOT a CUPE issue. In no greater a case could a union be more irrelevant to an issue.
I have reviewed the collective and no where in there does it say they must provide medical support services or even that they are qualified to do such.
What I hope parents start challenging and legally is that children with autism are NOT allowed medical support services WHILE in an educational setting.
Bonifide ABA autism treatment is NOT the same as learning the 3R's.
Do you know that other children considered to be handicapped ARE allowed APPROPRIATE and required medical support services WHILE in an educational setting all across this country.
Are you aware that children who also have neurological illness's/ and or neurological conditions ARE given and allowed medical support services WHILE in an eduational setting.

Since SEA's are trained to support children with learning disabilities and clearly Autism is not a learning disability their argument that providing medical support services for children with Autism infringes on "their right" to a job is senseless. Further to that, why do they not fight SLP's and OT's with their collective rights? Simple because again they are trained and hired on an educational support basis and since we are talking about appropriate medical support services their argument seems pointless.
In fact I challenge you to find me ONE Board in all of the country where an SEA would be put out of a job by allowing an appropriate medical support professional in for a child with autism. Do you know how many children with learning disablilities are going without the support THEY require, because the SEA's that SHOULD be working with them are all inappropriately allocated to children with neurological illness.

"we must work with existing structures"

if there were any already in the school system to address the complex needs of bonifide autism treatment I would say go for it! and I would lead the charge…
however consider the consequences of making short term compromises that could in effect cause long term and damaging results.

IF medical support services under provincial policy were to leave Bonifide ABA autism treatment up to the discretion of MOE, what would happen to the quality of treatment and exactly whom would set the training standards? Again this would be another instance of expecting non autism industry personal to completely retool and be able to deliver effective and qualified ABA treatment while in an educational setting. How would the EA now turned behaviour therapist take direction? From who? From providers the "school board" decides should work with your child? Remember without TRUE individualized funding , meaning that the PARENT(uses an individualized billing number similar to the ones we use when we chose our doctors and use their medical service) secures appropriate treatment professionals, otherwise your/the child could be left to the mercy of the lowest contract bid in.
(something we have seen clearly in Ontario-the now notorious bidding scandal)
I personally do not believe that all EA's would be able to completely ignore their mindset and completely retool their discipline with appropriate and set training standards, not just those flavourful beliefs that one weekend workshop and you are now a bondifide aba treatment professional/therapist.

I believe the notion that autism is untreatable is so engrained in the educational system that only a few EA's would be able to change their own pre conceived notions of what a child with autism is able to do and accomplish.

That is why this MUST be moved to Health and that trying to apply a bandaide using existing structure (non existant)for children who are school age, will only open up the potential to perversion of the remedy we seek for children with Autism that attend an educational entity.

Every Province look to your policy ( for those in Ontario it is PM81) on how medical support services are provided and by whom while a child is in an educational setting.
It is the policy that discriminates by handicap as against non autistic individuals.

I know that my thinking doesn't solve the problems of today, right now..this afternoon…but I think looking to the Ministry of Education to PROVIDE ABA treatment is EXTREMELY dangerous to the long term treatment of Autism for school aged children.
As a wise wise woman from BC has said to me in many of our conversations…
Our children "may" not benefit, we are not doing this for ours, for our own it may be too late, but we will pave the way for the generations to come.
We have a responsibility to expect nothing less than what the children of Canada living with Autism require and it is monumentaly important to take the time to do it right from the start, even if it means taking a little more time. You can not cut corners on children's lives anymore than you can fit a square into a circle.

It is my strong opinion the unions are non issue here. Saddly I know this is not the reality of the immediate day and that they may be causing undo stress to many families but in the long term change to legislation or policy on delivery of medical support services will in part disqualify individuals in teachers unions, since clearly they are not currently qualified to offer medical support services.

Just something to think about.
Its not an overnight fix.

[Deleted User]

Warning this is LONG ;-)

Hiring and Keeping your team:

I just wanted to add some of my experiences that will hopefully benefit some of you out there who are new to the game.

Staff turnover is a horrid part of the struggle. YOu think when you start that once you have a program, life will be easier – the reality is the fun is JUST beginning!!

Now you have people who contract to you, you have staff to oversee, meetings to run, schedules to make (the bain of my existence!!!) and paychecks to write. Yes, plainly put, it sucks but welcome to your life, here is some tips that I have learned the hard way :-)

Avoid sweet young women who love playing with children. THey are sweet and have great intentions but usually have great difficulty with behavioural interventions. ABA isn't always fun and games, particularly in the beginning.

Don't avoid hiring men. I know there has been some discussion about concerns of hiring men. If you are concerned about this with men on the team, you should also consider the sexual predators and can be women too. Video tape sessions, use a baby monitor at all times, whatever it takes but don't prejudge men. A large majority of children with autism are male. Boys need male role models. When you consider that our therapists are a large part of our child's life, it makes sense that they work with males. I've heard many a story from my consultant about boys in grade 3-6 who cross their legs like girls and use high pitched voices. We teach our children to imitate from the world around them but we must remember that they do not always understand social cues and that they may not realize it is not cool to sit and talk like a girl. We need to expose them to guys so that they act like guys. And as for our girls, it is important that they are used to working with males because the day will come where they will have a male teacher. Generalization should occur across the sexes as well is my point. Enough said.

Where to find both male and female therapists? Universities are your best bet. Anyone can learn to play with a child. Almost anyone can learn the basics of discrete trial. HOwever it takes an intelligent person to understand the complexity of discrete trial, the principles of ABA and most importantly to understand that knowing the basics of ABA does not make you an expert. I have seen too many therapists with minimal training think that they know it all and that they can make programming decisions or worse create their own interventions. ONly the intelligent ones understand how little they truly know. I can not emphasize that enough!!!

I should point out that there are lots of intelligent people who are not or have not gone to University. THey can be hard to find. Advertising at universities increases your chances of finding intelligent people.

Another bonus to recruiting from academics is a pool of people who may have a better grasp of data collection, science and who may be interested in this line of work not for the money but for the experience.

WHen interviewing, always ask people about their long term goals. Where do you plan to be in one year, in five years. If they plan to be working in marketing in one year, it may not be worth it to train them to have them leave soon.

Network with others in your area. This is especially true if you share the same consultant or consulting group. You don't want to overlap too much with some one else's team but by working together you can share some quality therapists who are looking for more work.

Look for energetic people. THey should be bubbly and alive. AVoid people who say they have a lot of experience but seem lifeless. Energetic people are reinforcing, walking dead are not. Energy is more important than experience.

Always search for new therapists. I am constantly looking and recruiting. When I meet someone who seems perfect for the job I tell them about what we do. If I am not in need, I pass them on elsewhere. Do the same. WHat comes around goes around.

don't be afraid of green.

As for managing your team:
divide up your responsibilities. One parent I know has one therapist in charge of photocopying, one in charge of updating materials etc.

We follow a model where we have one sr. therapist who is in charge of keeping materials current, photocopying or letting me know what needs to be copied, updating programs based on consultants requests, moving programs along through various steps.

Look for possible leaders. Give them responsiblity, don't forget to pay them for it.

Therapists need to be reinforced too. Give them raises regularly. It doesn't have to be huge, its the point that matters. Don't start out paying too high or you won't be able to do this. We've given .25 cent raises with the explanation that we know they are worth so much more but this is all we can afford. Tell them how great they are. Tell them how much you appreciate them. Listen to their feedback. Try to keep current with what is going on in their lives.

Therapists have lots of reasons for quitting, here are a few that are common:
-feeling as though their opinion does not matter. Try to open to what they have to say. Sometimes it might not be justifiable or sometimes its just not in lign with what is going on. But listen, don't be defensive and then calmly explain why it is not going to work or take it into consideration.
-not feeling like what they are doing is making a difference. If a therapist is commenting on this review what is happening on your team. Are programs moving along? Is your consultant on top of things? Is the therapist a skilled therapist or does the problem lie there? If so, then their leaving is for the best. If not, they something is stagnant on your team.
-They don't enjoy the work. Its not for everyone, good riddance if it is not for them.
-they are moving on in life, marriage, pregnancy, grad school, joining the rat race. Life happens. If you are in touch with their lives you can see most of this coming. Start recruiting asap.
-Here is a hard one for us parents to accept – we are difficult to work for. Sometimes we are. are you nice to your team? see my notes about reinforcing. I share your pain about opening up your house, the constant schedule, the difficulties of having a child with autism – I have two of em and two teams so trust me I KNOW – but don't take it out on your team. Be pleasant as much as possible, remind your team that you appreciate them but that this is your private space and hopefully they will respect that. Don't argue with your therapists unless they are way off base. Try to listen to their views. Explain rationally why an idea won't work.
-Dont' treat your team as if they are babysitters or daycare. If they are, your team is not really an ABA team. ABA and daycare are not the same thing. Treat your therapists as professionals. This is not to say that you can't have them do outings or activities with your kids. THose are good things but pay them as therapists and expect them to act as therapists by incorporating principles of ABA into these activities.

And finally do a search for postings by Nancy Walton because she has posted some in the past about training new people on an ongoing basis and her ideas were awesome!

HOpe this helps

Michelle (mother of Breanna and Griffen)

[Deleted User]

HL:Parents of special needs kids head to courts in fight for costly programs

By Michael Tutton
The Canadian Press

Parents of children with learning disabilities are on the legal warpath
this fall for costly teaching programs they say could save their children's
futures.
In at least four provinces, parents are either expecting key
decisions
by courts or launching test cases that could mean their kids receive
specialized training outside mainstream classes.
But governments defending the cases say if the parents win it could
potentially cost provincial coffers millions of dollars. And some
special-needs teachers argue similar improvements can be achieved in regular
classrooms. A human rights case held in a Moncton, N.B., hotel room last
week is an example of the kind of battle being waged.
Bonnie Cudmore, mother of a 14-year-old boy with attention deficit
disorder – a medical condition that harms his ability to concentrate in a
regular class – has argued the province should pay for her son to attend
Landmark East school.
The private boarding school in Nova Scotia costs about $25,000 a year.
Cudmore also argued the province owes her the $75,000 she's spent to
date for the small-classroom environment and personal training that has
helped her son excel at school and cope with his disorder.
The human rights case has taken 30 days so far – the longest in the
province's history – but like many parents in similar conflicts, Cudmore is
tenacious.
"Our house is for sale and we basically don't have two cents to rub
together and I don't care because it's for my son," she said in an
interview.

"We'll go all the way to the Supreme Court of Canada with this if we
have to."
Across Canada, families are also using human rights acts or arguing
Charter of Rights cases, using Section 15 provisions that protect the rights
of the disabled.
– Four families of children with autism, a mental disorder, are
awaiting
an appeal by the province before the British Columbia Court of Appeal. The
parents won an earlier decision at trial division when a judge ruled each
parent should receive $20,000 for treatment.
The treatment, known as Applied Behaviour Analysis or ABA, is a form of
one-on-one therapy administered for up to 40 hours a week for two to three
years. It costs between $45,000 and $60,000 a year for each child.
– In Ontario, 28 families are suing the province to receive similar
services for autistic children over six years old. The trial is expected to
begin within three weeks. The province already provides the service for
children under six through the Department of Children and Family
Development.
– In Dartmouth, N.S., the principal of Thomas Aquinas school – which
teaches children with attention deficit disorders – said parents are
preparing test cases that could require the province to pay annual fees of
$15,500 to send children to the school.
– Norrah Whitney, a mother of a six-year-old autistic boy, has launched
a human rights case in Ontario, arguing that cutting off Applied Behavioural
Analysis treatment at age six is a violation of his rights.
Dennis Cochrane, the deputy minister of education in Nova Scotia, says
provincial governments are resisting in court for both financial and
philosophical reasons.
"Very often it's just a question of resources," he said in an
interview.
"We have so much money and so many children to serve."
The cost per pupil in the public system is about $5,000 to $6,000, he
said. The various lawsuits are asking the provinces to pay fees three to 10
times as high.
Cochrane also asks where the trend toward demanding services outside
schools will stop.
"Once you get into the slippery slope and you're saying in the public
system you can't meet the needs of disabled children, what does it mean for
gifted children at the other end of the spectrum?"
Those arguments hold little water with parents who worry their autistic
children can grow so frustrated in regular schools they will descend into
intense tantrums, injuring themselves and ending up in institutions.
In Halifax, Joyce Dassonville, the mother of a seven-year-old girl with
autism, has quit her job at a downtown law firm to pursue her lawsuit
against the province and start an independent school for kids with autism.
She has spent hundreds of hours preparing a Charter of Rights challenge
before the Nova Scotia Supreme Court, arguing her daughter Dominique
Dassonville-Trudel is entitled to the ABA treatment.
"If she had cancer, the government would pay for her chemotherapy," she
said.
"Parents are starting to find out there are very effective treatments
that are available and paid for in other places and it's not available to
their children."
Lawyers argue the treatments save society huge amounts of money over
the
longer term.
Birgitta von Krosigk, the North Vancouver lawyer leading the British
Columbia case, presented evidence at the trial that said providing the
treatment saved up to $1 million per child in future institutional care.
Some special educators are not convinced.
Kathy Myketyn, a lecturer on special-needs education at Acadia
University in Wolfville, N.S., said the cases mainly demonstrate provincial
governments have to improve what's offered within schools for children with
severe learning disabilities.
"Even for those children there can be appropriate kinds of learning and
teaching happening with the teacher and the children in a regular classroom
context," she said in an interview.
"There is no reason for these children to be trained or taught in these
segregated settings in a very elitist way." Linda Reid, the minister of
state for early childhood development in British Columbia, argues the
answer
lies in tailoring the programs provided to each child.
She said of the roughly 500 children with autism in the province, many
may not need the most expensive treatment.
"There's an entire range of behaviours. There are families today who
are
treating their child's disorder successfully with speech therapy to the tune
of $1,000 a month .-.-. the program has to be matched to the child."

CP 1405ES 15-09-02

________________________________________________
I know the press does a good job covering our issues, I wish though people would stop confusing a precise science treatment with education, although both can be addressed on a parallel they ARE different things.

What I find most interesting about the only argument repeatedly made by
various government officials, is that they seem not to be able to read
provincial annual audits that are readily available to any member of the
public.
Perhaps they need some perspective training…because I dunno call me crazy
here but when we can spend 3.8 BILLION dollars per year in Ontario alone on
PREVENTABLE disease – smoking and alcohol related how do you argue you can't
afford it for those who never had or made a choice in having Autism, none of
whom I confidently challenge eagerly pariticpated in the precipitation of
their condition/n.illness.

It is my pleasure to inform others on the list that the Ontario Human Rights
Commission has accepted Jurisdiction of my son's case. Luke shall proceed on
the basis that termination of his ABA treatment is a direct violation of his
Human Rights. I will not be able to answer private emails or discuss matters
of the case until it is over, so I can not nor will not be repsonding to
private emails regarding the case.
Please keep Luke in your prayers.

best regards,
Norrah Whitney

[Deleted User]

Hyperactivity

Two things helped our child with hyperactivity.

ABA has helped establish a more 'normal' pattern of daily behaviour. This means not jumping off dressers, or tearing everything apart, or changing activities every 30 seconds. It is not a process of instant change but a gradual one. If you are just starting or thinking of starting ABA be willing to give it time and target/track the behaviours so you can measure progress over time. A qualified treatment provider can help with this.
Another thing to look at is diet. We made significant changes to our sons diet (which wasn't the best, lots of sugars and processed foods) and it was hard. At first some behaviours increased and sleep pattern disturbances increased then after sticking to our guns decreased dramatically after a month. We hadn't yet started an ABA program so this was easy to measure. May not be an issue for all children. Medication may work for some chemical imbalances but often do not address the root problem.

[Deleted User]

Question to all the parents out there. Our child is considered to be fairly high functioning, however the child is very hyper.

Do any of you have your children on any medication for hyperactivity? If so what and does it help? Thank you all in advance!

[Deleted User]

Just a quick question, how are all the kids doing in school? Slowly but surely our child is adjusting, so wondering overall how they are doing.

[Deleted User]

The BCTF website is http://www.bctf.bc.ca

If you click on "contact us", it also shows Neil's
address as neil@bctf.ca

[Deleted User]

Correction email address is nworboys@bctf.ca

[Deleted User]

Re: Anonymous (Friday Sept 13 12:47)

Mr. Neil Worboys email address is worboys@bctf.ca
and his telephone number is 604-871-2290.
Go Get Him!

[Deleted User]

I was just wondering if anyone heard the Bill God (sic!) program on CKNW yesterday when he had BCTF President, Mr. Neil Worboys on, and specifically asked Mr. Worboys why teachers, given that they are committed to what is educationally best for every student, why they do not actively advocate for LOVAAS-trained S.E.A.s for autistic students?

I was positively overjoyed to hear this question asked, and ecstatic when I heard the answer. Mr. Worboys obviously did not anticipate such a question, and essentially, his answer was that he was not competently informed about such to do so. I cannot recall the exact dialogue, but … MR. WORBOYS VIRTUALLY EXTENDED AN INVITATION FOR PARENTS TO "EDUCATE" HIM RE: LOVAAS AND AUTISM TOWARD BCTF MEMBERS ACTIVELY ADVOCATING FOR SUCH ON BEHALF OF THEIR AUTISTIC STUDENTS.

YAHOO!! This really is a foot in the door, and, coinciding with the upcoming civic elections, could really prove promising!

Does anyone know the email address for Mr. Worboys at BCTF? I have a feeling he's going to get a crash-course on the subject of Autism and Lovaas. Let's not let this opportunity slide by, they are so few and far between … we all have our stories, now is the time to share them with Mr. Worboys and get BCTF onboard in a significant "political" way — they might very well be the group to help finally achieve what we are all looking for! So again, if anyone has the BCTF contact info. handy, it would be most helpful if they would post it asap. Thanks!!

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