[Deleted User]

To anonymous SEA who foamed at the mouth about the inadequacy of us "therapists":

You are incredibly uninformed but that aside, I would like to answer and clarify some of the comments you made. There is nothing I can say to change your opinions. That is a waste of my time. I will however voice my disagreement.

The term therapist is a bit antiquated in today's P.C. world. I would first remind you we are merely discussing a label, a person is not defined by their label but by their actions. My point, who cares about a title? The term therapist originally comes from the Lovaas clinic as this was the label used. Today, we are getting away from that but terminology sticks and people still use it. Personally, I now use the term Behavioural Instructor, this is what one Consultant I work with uses.

Second, I find your comment that we are uneducated cheap labour offensive. I have a B.A., 3 years of experience, many hours of one on one training with a variety of different consultants and have attended several workshops, conferences etc. I recognize that I have a long way to go in my training and for that reason I pursue every training opportunity that comes my way. Do you? I have several acquiatances who are SEA's and they do not pursue any additional training. Because there are no Canadian Universities offering an applicable Masters degree in ABA, I do not yet have this qualification. I will one day. I will relocate to the U.S., spend large quantitities of money on a masters and hopefully return.

Unlike many of the SEA's I know, I spend a vast majority of my free time reading up on theory, terminology and current research on developments in ABA and Autism. I pay out of my own pocket to attend workshops, seminars and conferences.

I looked into the SEA program once. THe program I examined had a 4 hour workshop/seminar on autism. Perhaps that has been expanded to 1 day now. Wow. I can imagine that in that one day filled with coffee breaks and long lunches there must be a tonne of information on Autism. Apparently there is little if any information on ABA. You clearly know absolutely nothing about it. And I know there is absolutely NO information presented on Discrete trial instruction, despite the scientific data that backs it up. I'm curious, what methods of treatment did you learn about in your training? Or did they discuss treatment at all. Perhaps you just learned about the glories of inclusion, pec schedules and maybe a little sensory integration as well? And yet YOU are more qualified to support a child within a medically perscribed ABA program than I.

Interesting.

I have met many SEA's. I've attempted to train several as well. I've met a few wonderful SEA's who were excellent supports for the children with Autism they worked with. All were also working on ABA teams. I've met some completely untrainable aides as well. Perhaps they were excellent candidates to work with a child who was NOT in an ABA program but they were complete failures at ABA.

what disturbs me most about SEA's like you and the majority I've worked with (this does not apply to those of you who excel at your jobs, working hard to work with the child's needs and are willing to learn about ABA) is their disinterest in learning. Their is a lack of understanding of why this therapy is important, why it is effective and why continuity is critical. Instead there is this assanine perspective that they in all their two years of "education" (and not even a university degree) have the ability to make decisions for an autistic child's needs.

Even instructors/therapists/behavioral interventionist's know this is ridiculous. We follow the directions and guidance of our consultant. They have Masters Degrees. We do not make the decisions about any child's programs or interventions. We recognize that this is serious and that one must have the appropriate qualifications to do so. Do you recognize this? Does your union? Apparently not.

As for my pay… I don't get paid $8 an hour. With my experience, I do get paid more. I don't get paid what you get paid, I'm not part of a union. I could join one and work for a Government Behavioural Intervention program if I was so inclined. I could start at $20 an hour and probably get benefits. Maybe this is what you get paid… does that make you more qualified? I've met some BI's. They do not have the training I have. They do not get the support I get from my consultants.

I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I worked for such a program. What I do is important. The children I work with have made and continue to make incredible, MEASURABLE gains. I have data to back up every gain, every growth, every challenge and every success each child I work with goes through. Do you? Accurate data?

I'm willing to work for a lower wage knowing that what I do is the right thing to do. The service I provide is much needed and I work hard at what I do. I don't need to make $20 to feel good about what I do. My reward is in the progress that my clients make every day. Is that why you do your job?

I doubt it. Your complete lack of compassion, your coldhearted comments about parents and worst of all these children speak otherwise. I hope none of my clients ever have to suffer through a day with you as their SEA.

Your comment about children regressing "blah blah blah" is extremely offensive. Regression is a serious issue. A child who makes CONSIDERABLE, measurable gains only to enter a hostile school environment with a poorly trained and inadequate aide, and yes I know of many documented cases to back up this statement, and who then regresses is a child who has lost time. This is not something to scoff at or to blow off with statements like blah blah blah. Your incredible disregard for the welfare of these children makes me sick. Your lack of professaionalism is astounding but not surprising. I've seen people like you before. People like you don't last on the teams that I run.

And finally, your comment that if parents don't like the system, they should send their child to private school. Many do. If it wasn't for the cost of running an ABA program $40,000 to $60, 000 a year, perhaps more would. Private schools have tuitions, parents are required to pay part or all of their aide's wages and this is not always an option for families. Too bad, if they did their wouldn't be jobs for people like you.

Instead parents will fight people like you. THey will deal with your insecurities, cold hearted comments and lack of understanding. They will deal with poorly designed/written education plans for their children, they will fight to have their child's medically necessary treatment included during school, they will take your system to court. And they will win.

The tide is turning. Perhaps you can't feel the swell rising against you, but it is about to crash on your head.

signed
an instructor

[Deleted User]

To SEA 1 and the very dedicated, resourceful parents on this chat who are working so hard to have their childs ABA program carry over into the school setting.

SEA 1;
As a parent I thank you for showing your true colours. My child has a right to medical treatment for his/her disease (autism). My child also has a right to benefit from education services provided within a school setting. As a parent I have an obligation to see that my childs rights are realized. The Ministry of Ed guidelines for Autism states that Districts MAY choose to employ an SEA – they aren't bound to do so, they may choose to do so. SEA's do not have any 'right' to 'work' with autistic children. Therefore there is no logical rational whatsoever for a parent to waist one precious moment considering your needs. You are just another self serving district employee who holds his/her employment more precious than the mental health of children and more precious than the basic rights of humanity that govern our society. After all you are asking us to deliberately compromise the quality of our childs mental health to preserve your employment opportunities as well as to cater to the unbalanced sensitivities of self serving school district politics.

To parents;
A word of caution, we all face obvious opposition in realizing the most beneficial arrangement for our child within the school system. I am growing increasingly concerned that many of us may be setting our selves up for increased adversity from our districts and may be giving them a large stick with which to beat us in regards to non union therapists and SEA's working as therapists.
We have had an SEA 'trained' as a therapist for our child. The problem wasn't the therapist though but our ABA provider. To date we have next to nothing to show in terms of training documents, progress reports, or evaluations that effectively document our therapist's level of proficiency in delivering ABA to our child. Nor is there any documented evidence of truly objective analysis of our childs behaviour (learning, communicative, social, maladaptive) within the school setting or any science based process of providing intervention in these areas. In a nutshell we do not believe our consultant has shown due dilligence or for that matter an honest effort at providing the standard of care expected of someone who claims to be a responsible and respectful provider of Lovaas ABA therapy. It takes a lot more than ABC sheets, data sheets of discrete trial teaching, and some general recomendations and ideas to replicate the quality of treatment defined by Lovaas. We must be careful to ensure our demands to have 'medically necessary treatment' be accomodated within the school setting be paired with ample evidence of SCIENCE based programming and stringent quality control of those delivering intervention. Is your consultant maintaining the level of quality controls that would hold up to scrutiny by his or her most professional peers? Are you as a consumer and a parent demanding a high enough standard of attention to staff performance and programming? If not you may be setting up your childs school program for weak results, substandard staff performance, and a lack of accountability. In the school setting we must conduct our treatment programs with the highest level of accountability, objective decision making, and professionalism lest we arm our detractors with evidence of mediocrity.

[Deleted User]

Hello everyone, this is anonymous SEA number 1.

After much consideration, I have come to an opinion in the matter. I have been erroneous in saying that I am on anyone’s side. I wish I could take that back but I suppose I will just have to chalk it up to being young, naïve and overzealous. As an ABA therapist, my sympathies rest with the families of children with autism who just want to see their children get better. I understand your side of the fight; I appreciate what you are up against. However, as an SEA, an aspiring teacher and a daughter of teachers, I must say that I feel strongly that the School Boards are careful of ABA for good reason. As you all know full well, they have many issues to consider before the implementation of such programming. How would it work? Who would be in charge of what? Where do the resource teachers fit? Who will sue them next? Who will lose their jobs? Who should they protect? The list goes on and on. Everyone here, and I mean EVERYONE, because NO right-minded teacher likes to see struggling kids struggle more, agrees that the kids are most important, but, yes there is a but, who looks out for those of us working for those kids? What type of training do ABA therapists have? Where do thier sympathies lie? ho will they really be working for? Who insures that teachers, ABA therapists, SEA’s, Principals, and resource teachers all work together cohesively and with result? This is where the unions get involved; and where unions get involved, things get messy. One must also realize that job climate is not so friendly for many teachers and SEA’s right now. There are many cutbacks occurring and this affects this process immensely. I know what you’re thinking, how can they think of their jobs where children are involved? Let me ask you this. Please try and put yourself in their position, set your feelings aside for one moment and look at this objectively. How would you feel if your job was threatened? How would you react? I guess what I’m saying is that there are many sides to consider in this. How can we work TOGETHER to come to a solution?

Another question for you guys. Does anyone know anything more about this new school that Ms Clark spoke of? Which special needs are to be inducted into the school? What type of teaching will occur there?

Thanks so much for all your help and for the information you guys have shared with me (especially Sabrina, whom I've never had the pleasure of meeting but have heard such wonderful things about ;).

[Deleted User]

My husband heard a brief news clip on cknw this afternoon about christy clark making an announcement about funding for a new special needs school. apparently she was interupted by the parent of an autistic child, angry about lack of treatment for his son. i searched the cknw website and found this brief mention:
http://www.cknw.com/news/localnews_detail.cfm?item=26723
does anyone know anything more?
deedee

[Deleted User]

Wow guys,

It's me, SEA number 1.
Thanks so much for educating me as to your position. I'm feeling rather overwhelmed with all this info. It's so tough to form an opinion when you are recieving completely contradictory views. You are right, I am new to this and still learning. That's ok, we all are. I just want you guys to know that my primary concern is for your children. Please know that I say that with all sincerity. I have a heaviness of heart for you and your families. I stay up many nights worrying about the kids, you guys and and teacher's rights. I started up this vein because I thought it would be good for parents who may not know the school board's position to be educated. I think it's really important that we all do this, listen to one another's opinions and weigh them accordingly.

[Deleted User]

Cheers Tamara good point indeed.

I would like to share some interesting information from the other land of horror, Ontario.

One of our provincial politicians who has been extremely supportive of Ontario children with Autsim, arranged a meeting between one of the heads of C.U.P.E. Ontario and a representative of FEAT of Ontario.

Although for the purpose of this board and post this is considered "heresay" it will not be so in court.

The Cupe union in Ontario stated that there employees are NOT trained to treat children with Autsim in the education system.

They also stated that they would NEVER stop an child with autism from accessing education by denying appropriate medical supports.

They further asked for names of every school and board that has used CUPE as an excuse to keep ABA therapists from supporting children with autism.

Both CUPE and our Ministry of Education agree it is the boards causing the discrimination and harm against our children.

As soon as this is no longer considered "heresay" I will update my kind friends in BC.

Secondly I would like to add that a Judiciary body has reviewed evidence regarding this matter of Special Education as an alternative to IBI and found that Special Education CAN NOT be offered as an alternative, as it has no evidence to support it's efficacy and further that IBI/ABA is a medically necessary treatment and that special education is not treatment.

Of course I will forward our CUPE friends testimony to Brigitta asap.

best regards from the trenches
norrah

[Deleted User]

I am the mother of a 3 year old boy with autism. We started our Lovaas program a short while ago and I have been reading the posts here with great interest. I have never posted anything because I did not feel I had anything important to say. However, after reading the anonymous post by the school district employee I feel I must write something. For once I will say something for my child, who by the way happens to love his therapists.

This person definately does not have a clue about what we all experience. My own personal story started a couple of years ago when my child began to exhibit signs of autism. It took my husband and I close to a year to get anyone to say the "A" word even though I had a lot of doubts. But I was told I was a nervous mother by all the "medical experts". We finally got a diagnosis and all I can say is that before starting our Lovaas program my son spent most of his day screaming in a corner hitting his baby brother or myself, etc. I could go on but I think most people understand where I am going. This was very painful for my family and I was very depressed over it. I began to read more about Lovaas methods and called a few families who were doing Lovaas programs. At first I can even say I was sceptical but now my only regret is not starting sooner. I feel like I robbed my child of VALUABLE time with TRAINED therapists who are reaching my child every day with a medically necessary treatment. They do not perform circus tricks with my child. Every member of our team is an intelligent person, most of whom hold degrees in pschylogy. They are under the careful supervision of a wonderful consultant who also holds many degrees. I am sad that I even have to mention these degrees but I do because the person who posted their message feels this is the mark of superiority when working with children.

In a short time we have made huge leaps. My son no longer screams all day, he no longer hits. He is initiating and sustaining short conversations. He is beginning to tell me how he feels, what he thinks, etc. I have a beautiful little boy who is no longer lost in his own world but one who is trying to reach his family and peers. Tell me, do you think you could train a dog to do such things? I could and will never be able to put a price on what our therapists do for our son. I have so much respect for them because they have been able to bring him back from the unknown. I also know that I am in a honeymoon period and I have a great problem before me if this is what is to meet my child when he begins school. I hope that when he reaches school age he will continue to work with Lovaas trained interventionists but from the post I have read, I only fear for his future.

Sorry if I speak too much from the heart and not from the mind. I am writing as a mother. I wish you all success and good things with your children.

[Deleted User]

I have read the posts on "What is EIBI?". I want to add a little information.

I have just moved here from Nova Scotia in order to obtain the medically necessary treatment that my 8 year-old daughter with Autism needs. In Nova Scotia there are simply no Consultants with any experience let alone expertise.

In Nova Scotia I commenced a law suit against the Nova Scotia goverment and the Halifax Regional School Board, and the local Children's Hospital, Hospital Psychologist and Peadeatrition.

In the law suit I refered to the medically necessary treatment that my daughter was denied as EIBI, or Early Intensive Behavioural Intervention. When Cross-Examining the Peadeatrition, she testify that EIBI was one and the same as Lovaas Therapy.

While I copied my Statement of Claim almost exactly from the Auton case, I did not want to use the term Lovaas Treatment. Nevertheless the Defendant's took EIBI to mean Lovaas.

In BC the government has now called their "Program" EIBI.

While Lovaas Treatment is in fact one form of EIBI, the BC government has given the term EIBI a bad name here in BC. In many parts of the states as well as eastern Canada, EIBI has a "Good Name" not having been associated with an unpopular government program.

It would be more accurate to say that EIBI is Early Intensive Behavioural Intervention, a well respected form of therapy for autism accross most of North Amercia, except in BC where the government tried to give credibility to themselves by using that name for a program that does not use properly trained Consultants, (their "friends" as some of you have referred to them.

It is not the term EIBI, or Early Intensive Behavioural Intervention that should have the bad name (as it does amoung the FEAT parents here in BC), but the specific improper use by the BC government of a widely accepted term in the scientic community throughtout most of the US and eastern Canada. There is nothing Early about a government program where the child is older than 2 years when they commence a program. THere is nothing intensive about a program that provides insufficient funds to "be intensive". Whatever behavioural intervention given by these government consultants will be no better than the level of skills (or lack there of) on the part of the consultants.

That does not make the term EIBI wrong or inherently bad, it simply means that the BC government program which is using the name EIBI for its program is only as good or bad as the consultants involved. While the Feat parents strongly believe that the BC EIBI program is seriously lacking, and while I have little first hand knowledge of the BC EIBI program,(we did not move here for a government program) I stand by my decision to use the term EIBI in my Nova Scotia litigation, as it is a widely accepted term accross North Amercia, with properly trained Consultants and is often used interchangably with the term ABA, and according to at least one Nova Scotia Peadeatrition, (defending herself in my lawsuit) it is the same thing as Lovaas Treatment.)

A better to the question "What is EIBI?" would be, EIBI means one thing in much of the autism scientific community accross the US and eastern Canada, and something else for the BC government program.

[Deleted User]

Re: SEA Discussion + Scary Union Postings

I do not hear anyone advocating special education for children with diabetes – they get appropriate medical treatment for their medical condition.

Autism is a medical condition, not a learning disability. We are not after union dollars for medical treatment or "dog training". We just want our children to be able to access their right to education, without jeapordizing their medical treatment.

To: anonymous poster -> what school district are you in?

[Deleted User]

Re: SEA Discussion + Scary Union Postings

I do not hear anyone advocating special education for children with diabetes – they get appropriate medical treatment for their medical condition.

Autism is a medical condition, not a learning disability. We are not after union dollars for medical treatment or "dog training". We just want our children to be able to access their right to education, without jeapordizing their medical treatment.

To: anonymous poster -> what school district are you in?

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