[FEAT BC Admin]

In this topic area, discussion is about the fight to secure Government funding for your A.B.A. treatment program. It is also the place to talk about your thoughts and ideas about how to establish new Government programs specifically designed for autism treatment.

This is the place to hear input from parents who have fought for funding and won, as well as those who have fought for funding and would like to share their horror stories. There is a tendency to not share success stories once funding is secured. Please fight that tendency. By sharing our experience, we all become stronger.

 

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—-By FEAT BC (Freeman) on Saturday, January 3, 1998 – 03:16 pm:

-Hi everyone!

These are some things to think about in your dealings with government to help you to obtain support for your child’s Autism Treatment Program. These are my personal opinions and do not represent those of FEAT of BC or any other organization.

Many of these observations are based on my personal experiences (and I believe it poetic justice to help every parent avoid being systematically abused by their social worker the way I was).

Good luck to everyone! (Let’s all pull back the curtain on the Wizard of OZ).

Sabrina

 

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How To Fight for Funding for Autism Treatment and Appropriate School Placement

1. Establish a Paper Trail

Always take notes, documenting major points of all conversations with government and school officials.

This includes casual, in person conversations with social workers as well as ALL telephone conversations. All key points of discussion must be written down in your notes including the date and time of the discussion. This includes what was agreed upon, as well as what was not agreed upon.

Then the notes should be used to write a letter recapping the substance and content of the conversation. This letter must then be mailed or faxed to the person with whom you had the conversation. In addition, a copy must be kept in your file (see section on the icci game).

Why?

It is important to formalize the interaction between you and Government officials. In addition, everyone is put on notice that they must closely adhere to their responsibilities, regulations and laws., Furthermore, they must then consider the paper trail you have created. This lets everyone know that the interaction can become public and that any abuses of power and authority can be formally appealed and/or publicized.

In other words, they canit use discretion unfairly under the cloak of secrecy.

2. Submit all Requests in Writing

All your requests for your child must be submitted formally in writing with a copy included in your file and a copy, if necessary, sent to their immediate superiors.

3. Set Deadlines for Action

All formal requests for action must have a reasonable deadline set for that action. If no action or response is received by the deadline you have set (two weeks for example), then you will interpret the lack of response as a formal declination (a formal NO) of your requests.

Why Set Deadlines?

When bureaucrats do not want to do something, they will stall by ignoring you and your request. (As an aside, in the study of the bureaucracy, this is known as ithe power to do nothingi). They can string you along for years. When you have determined that the person you are interacting with is not inclined to help you or is not dealing in good faith, then you must take the initiative and formally label his/her behavior as obstructionist and de facto as a declination (a NO to your requests). This allows you to move to the next level of authority on your timetable to present your case. This takes the power to do nothing away from the bureaucrat with whom you are dealing. Simple stated, a bureaucrat who stalls and does nothing becomes irrelevant (use your invisible spray) and you move on to the next level of authority.

How to icci?

A cc. is a copy of your letter sent to someone other than the person you are writing. You put the cc. at the bottom left-hand corner of your letter followed by 2 spaces and the name of the person or people to whom you want to send a copy of the letter.

Who to icci to?

Sometimes it is best not to icci at all, especially in the early stages of the relationship (for example, your first letter to a social worker requesting assistance). This gives them the opportunity to do the right thing and does not present you as an overly combative person. When you start to run into problems, it is a good idea to send the icci to the 2 immediate superiors of the person you are having problems with. We do not recommend icciing all the way up the chain of command, since you want to give them a chance to solve the problem at the local level.

Why send a icci copy?

The reason for playing the icci game is that you want your interactions with the official to be known to his superior and possibly to other organizations so that 1) their action or inaction becomes a matter of record and 2) the individual knows he is being monitored. This helps minimize abuses of power and authority and helps encourage the official to meet their obligations and do the right thing.

What is the sequence of letters?

Find out the chain of command of the particular bureaucracy you are battling.

TOP

Minister
Deputy Minister
Children’s Ministry’s local region chain of command, all the way down to the District Supervisor
and Social Worker
Contacts can be found at the government directory: http://www.dir.gov.bc.ca/

BOTTOM

Start at the bottom and climb. At the Regional Operating Officer (ROO) level (once you have been declined) you have to decide whether to jump up to the top, threaten and then go to the media, or both. A word of wisdom: DO NOT BLUFF. If you are not willing to go all the way, they will ‘smell’ this. You must be prepared to take it right up to the Minister and beyond.

Documentation from Experts:

In your arsenal to fight for your child, it is wise to get his/her pediatrician and/or psychiatrist to write a letter on your childis behalf. In addition, any other experts who know your child and are sympathetic to what you are trying to do should become involved.

When to hire a lawyer?

If money is not an issue, you can hire a lawyer when you get to the area manager level. Make sure that you have a paper trail so the lawyer has something to work with. Also, have the lawyer give F.E.A.T. of B.C. a call, and we will send him/her information that will help.

If money is an issue (as it is for most of us running autism treatment programs), you might want to hire a lawyer once you have been turned down by the Minister.

How to hire a lawyer?

The type of lawyer needed is a litigator, or trial lawyer. S/he does not need to be an expert in autism, or special needs; s/he needs to be experienced in suing governments, and enjoys being in court. Word of mouth is a good way to find a lawyer.

Topic

[Deleted User]

I too have one to add about the government's answer to ABA. A worker from the Infant and Child Development office contacted me about 10 days ago to inform me that the government now had this "program that offered intensive treatment". She said that our child "might" qualify for it, but the "ICD office didn't have all the information". I asked her exactly what it was called and what information they did have – I also asked her in the same sentence if the common name was PCARD. She admitted that she didn't know the name of the program, all they gave her was a pamphlet with a very vague description – infact as she was reading the name of the program to me – I pointed out to her that the initials equaled P C A R D! I then informed her what was happening, what the government was trying to pass off as their answer to intensive behavioural intervention! I encouraged her to contact FEAT for more details and to further educate herself, as she said that she had an obligation to present this to other families. I said that it would be in her best interest to get the facts, so that she could at least answer some of the questions that she would encounter. It is sad that this young person was only trying to do her job, and the government that she works for is keeping her in the dark feeding information on a "need to know" basis (barely) and gettiing her to do their snow job! Your right!!! it does sound like a good story for invesigative reporting.

[Deleted User]

Just a little update on the PCARD thing:

After reading the message Julie forwarded to us about the PCARD system I thought I'd make a few calls and see if I could speak to someone about this program that SUPPOSEDLY exists. I called enquiry BC… they had no idea what I was talking about. suprise surprise.

I was then forwarded to mcf, put on hold and then transferred to a voice mail box.

Before trying this route, I tried my social worker, thinking that she would at least know how one signs up for the program.

When I asked about the PCARD program she at first had no idea as to what I was referring to. I then explained the initiative, she then informed me that the gov't had not given them any information on it. She promised to ask around for me and did promptly get back to me. apparently nobody seems to know much of what it is or how it works. THe government has told them (her office at least) very little. She did hear that it hadn't passed cabinet yet and that it was a joint venture with Ministry of health and that was it. She also thought you were supposed to go through sunny hill to get in.

Ahhh, another hoop.

To be honest, I know the PCARD program is not true ABA and I don't intend to sign up for it, HOWEVER, my point is

HOW CAN YOU TELL THE PUBLIC THAT A NEW PROGRAM EXISTS WHEN CLEARLY IT DOES NOT?!

was this not the same program they so proudly claimed was in existence last year during the court case? why is is still not up and running? why does nobody know anything about it? how does one get their child into the program?

It seems to me that the answer is simple. PCARD doesn't actually exist. It is truly a farce. a trick of smoke and mirrors. Sounds like a good television expose to me… perhaps an election bombshell

[FEAT BC Admin]

RE: the BC Children’s Commission
FROM: FEAT of BC
TO: FEAT BC members
_________________________________________________________________

FEAT BC Directors Jean Lewis and Sabrina Freeman, made formal presentation to the BC Children’s Commission in Vancouver on Friday 03/09/01. The full Commission was in attendance, including Commissioner Paul Pallen.

The presentation described the current situation for children with autism in BC and also included a 45 minute video-tape from the Lovaas Institute which stresses the importance of effective, science based autism treatment. The presentation discussed the inadequacy of BC Government services for children with autism and the serious difficulty BC children have in getting effective autism treatment in a universally accessible manner.

The presentation was well received by the Children’s Commission. Families who are currently not able to access medically necessary autism treatment through the Ministry for Children and Families, may want to consider their options regarding filing a complaint with the Children’s Commission against the Ministry for Children and Families.

You may have grounds for a BC Children’s Commission enquiry if your child’s situation is as follows:

– your child is diagnosed with autism or autism spectrum disorder from a BC psychologist, psychiatrist or pediatrician

– your child’s physician or psychologist has prescribed a Lovaas-type ABA treatment program

– you cannot afford to privately provide the prescribed autism treatment yourself

– Ministry for Children and Families has refused to provide necessary funding for the prescribed treatment

– your child is unable to get into the government P-CARD autism program

– your child’s physician is of the opinion that lack of a medically necessary autism treatment program will harm your child’s health and well being.

BC Children’s Commission contact information:

Telephone Toll-free
1-800-859-1441

Telephone in Victoria
(250) 356-0831

Fax
(250) 356-0837

Post
Children's Commission
PO Box 9207, Stn Prov Govt
Victoria, British Columbia
CANADA V8W 9J1

Web
http://www.childservices.gov.bc.ca/

Role of the Children’s Commission:

– to monitor the effectiveness of services for children and youth
– to make recommendations for change
– to ensure that necessary changes are made
– to ensure that children and youth are respected and treated fairly,
that they have access to the services they need and that these
services are responsive to their needs

[Julie Ng]

I just received this info and thought this might be interesting for everyone.

Joe

————————————————–

March 7, 2001

Dear Community Group Facilitator:

This week representatives from the Ministry of Children and Families presented to the Board of ASBC on the subject of MCF’s Initiative on their Early Intervention Program. They provided a basic outline of the Program explaining that they are somewhat limited in the amount of detail they can provide because they are currently in litigation regarding this program.

I would like to share with you this information so you, in turn, will have some information you can share asking in your community. I’m sure people are you what is happening in response to the Auton case and the court order that an ABA program must be made available for children on the autism spectrum who are 6 years and under. I hope that the information that follows can help in someway to help keep our members and others up to date on this issue.

The name of the Program is currently PCARD, The Provincial Centre for Autism and Related Disorders. Note that this is not likely to be the permanent name nor will there be a specific physical location for the Program. This is a Program that will eventually be operating throughout the province in every community where there is a child 6 years and under with an autism spectrum disorder.

The Provincial Centre will have four different but coordinated functions including:
1. Diagnosis and Assessment
2. Intervention
3. Training
4. Research and Evaluation
Included in the Program, of course, will be a community based ABA program.

The current plan is to have a Provincial Coordinator who will be contracted to provide expert leadership. This person will not be a MCF employee rather he/she will be an external person with fewer constraints on him/her since he/she will be outside government. There will be four consultants, each responsible for one of the four functions as listed above. At the same time that this Provincial Centre is being developed MCF will be developing parallel structures regionally to build community capacity to provide the program locally.

The first phase of the Program is underway now. Last summer a Request for Proposals (RFP) was circulated to service providers and a selection process was undertaken. A panel was involved in reviewing the proposals from the applicant organizations. Panel members included: Dr. Jill Calder, member of the Ministry of Health’s Expert Panel on Autism and ASBC Board Member, Dr. Pat Mirenda, UBC Professor of Special Education, Deborah Pugh, Executive Director of ASBC. This group met with proponents and was extremely vigilant in the selection process to ensure that the focus was on getting the best program for

children and families. From the original 11 applicants three contracts were awarded. Negotiations with the selected proponents are now complete and the successful organizations were announced. The organizations and locations are as follows:

§ Thompson Okanagan – four child development centres have joined forces to provide a program that serves Kelowna, Penticton, Vernon and Kamloops

§ Delta Association for Child Development – serving Vancouver, Surrey and Delta

§ Queen Alexandria – serving the Greater Victoria area

These three programs will serve 75 to 100 children six years and under and will begin in the near future. We were not given information as to how families living in these communities can access the programs. I would suggest parents make a phone call to Enquiry BC at 660-2421 in Vancouver or 1-800-663-7867 outside the Lower Mainland and ask to speak a contact person regarding PCARD. This person should be able to provide the necessary information.

The next round of Requests for Proposals will be issued in April 2001. The RFPs will be shared on the Public Service Commission website. This second RFPs will be adapted to address new information that MCF has regarding this process and best practices and another selection process will be undertaken. Once that process is completed service will be made available to another group of children and families.

The program will be a year-round intensive intervention for children and their families. It will be a minimum of 20 hrs. per week and will consist of highly supportive structured teaching using a variety of strategies. It will be 1-1, planned and individualized. A multi-disciplinary team will be involved and will include speech and language pathologists. The program will involve integration with typical peers of the same age. It will have a functional, proactive, positive approach. The plan will be reviewed overtime to determine its ongoing appropriateness. A baseline will be established with ongoing monitoring and review of outcomes. The family will be an integral part of the team.

Professionals involved will be highly trained. Expertise in Applied Behavioural Analysis will be imported from the U.S. and Alberta as well as relying on domestic autism specialists.

The program format will be three-tiered similar to the Promising Practices. There will be core training on positive behavioural support and specific research and evaluation criteria. Both the child’s individual program and the service provider’s provision of service will be evaluated on an on-going basis.

A child will have a maximum three-year involvement and the transition in and out of the program will be dependent on evaluation by a multi-disciplinary team. If a child is over 4 years at diagnosis there could be a delay in entrance into kindergarten.

Assessment and diagnosis will happen at the regional level. There will be more than one or two teams to diagnose in the province and then refer to MCF for treatment. The Ministry of Health wants to build a regional capacity for diagnosis and assessment.

PCARD will have an advisory committee and ASBC will be one of the groups on that committee.

The MCF personnel at the meeting emphasized strongly that existing MCF programs available to children over age 6 and their families will not be siphoned off to support PCARD. The money for PCARD is new money. They indicated that there is a commitment to review the current system of behavioural support and this process will happen concurrent to the development of PCARD. We can reassure families with children over age 6 the current support they receive will not be compromised to support PCARD.

I hope that this basic overview of PCARD is helpful. As I am sure you are aware, having read this, there are many questions to be answered yet. ASBC is cautiously optimistic that this program will be a positive one for children 6 and under and their families. We will make every effort to keep you informed as we are given more information by government and we will continue in our role to advocate for the provision of appropriate treatment for all people with spectrum disorders regardless of their age.

Best wishes.

Clair Schuman
Program Director

[David and Barbara McLeod]

Hi Everyone

Just a correction to the date in Sabrina's message re: the video conference. It is actually happening on March 15. The 9th is the registration deadline.

Do we have the strength to attend!!

Barbara

[Sabrina Freeman]

Hi again.

I just received an invitation some members of the discussion board may find interesting.

Apparently our government has hired a very big name to make it appear as though they are actually concerned with early intervention for special needs children. The editor of the groundbreaking New York Report on Best Practices for Children with Autism, Dr. Michael Guralnick, is now, ironically, working with the same government players (MCF) who tenaciously worked through government lawyers to trash the New York Report in B.C. Supreme Court. Your children’s ministry is now spending more of your tax dollars to put the editor of the N.Y. Autism Report on a province-wide, pre-election, video conference on early intervention. We can now rest assured with the knowledge that children are this government’s HIGHEST priority ;-)

Anyway, the government has organized a “Free Video-Conference Education Forum: A Community-Based Prevention and Early Intervention System for Young Children with, or at Risk for Developing, Special Needs”, on March 9th from 12:30 – 4:30 PM at the following 20 towns in B.C. :

– Courtney, Chilliwack, Cranbrook, Duncan, Fort Nelson, Fort St. John, Houston, Kamloops, Kelowna, Kitimat, Nelson, Port Alberni, Port Hardy, Prince George, Prince Rupert, Williams Lake, Powell River, Vancouver, Vernon, Victoria.

I’m not sure how much of Dr. Guralnick’s address will relate to autism, but it should be interesting to hear what he will say about autism in front of the Ministry that has hired him to speak.

If you would like an e-mail invitation to this video conference, you can contact
Marie.Schultz@gems5.gov.bc.ca or give FEATBC a call (or mailto:admin@featbc.org) and we’ll fax you the registration form.

Anyone planning on going, please contact FEAT BC if you would like to volunteer to give us your notes.

Sabrina (Miki’s mom).

[Sabrina Freeman]

Hi all.

I’ve just been faxed a very exciting piece of news by a hard working FEAT dad. The fax is part of a Liberal Party publication distributed today to Richmond households with a section entitled “Together, we can strengthen BC’s families”.

The section reads as follows:

“SUPPORT FOR PARENTS AND FAMILIES:

One of the best ways to support children is to support those who raise them. Many new or expectant parents do not have role models for advice or companionship, and family resource programs play an important part in providing support.

Families of children with autism face a particular need for early intervention programs, which are essential for learning and social development.

– The government must ensure family resource programs continue to play an important role in early childhood intervention programs.

– IN PARTICULAR, THE PROVINCE MUST MEET ITS LEGAL DUTIES UNDER THE CANADA HEALTH ACT.”

At this time, only the Liberal Party of B.C. endorses the inclusion of medically necessary autism treatment in the B.C. health care system as required by the Canada Health Act. This is a major departure from long standing government policy that views autism is merely a social services matter under a Children’s Ministry jurisdiction.

This is a very positive development. We all need to work hard to ensure that politicians keep their promises.

Sabrina (Miki’s mom).

[Sandy & Mike]

EXTREMELY well put Isaac. Cheers!

Sandy (Jared's mom)

[Isaac]

RE: the Ministry of Health “BC Health Guide”

Most of us received in the mail today — or soon will — Government’s new “BC Health Guide”, produced to help “you and your family stay healthy” (Health Guide overview available at http://www.bchealthaction.org/guide.html)

As part of the BC Government’s $290 million “Health Action Plan”, the glossy, 396 page BC Health Guide has been published in very large quantity by the BC Ministry of Health (MOH) for distribution to every household in B.C. The hefty “handbook” is comprised of twenty-one chapters dealing with a variety of health care issues from “First Aid and Emergencies” to “Chest and Respiratory Problems”; Chapter 11 of the Guide is devoted to “Infant and Child Health”.

As the parent of a child afflicted with autism, I quickly flipped to the “Infant and Child Health” chapter of the Guide to read what the BC Health Ministry says to parents who suspect there may be a developmental issue with their child’s health. I eagerly searched for some kind of infant developmental check-list — some MOH red flags. I looked for MOH guidance on recognized, well established childhood developmental milestones parents should look for to confirm their infant is healthy or, conversely, may be a child in developmental trouble in immediate need of assessment, diagnosis and early intervention. Sorry, not in this government publication.

Coming as no surprise to our new generation of committed parents struggling to provide necessary health care for children with autism, there is absolutely nothing in the newly published BC Government “Health Guide” that addresses the need to screen for developmental problems in infants and young children.

The MOH Health Guide has a lot of helpful physical health care advice targeted mostly for adults, but it has NOTHING (as in “zero”) to say about developmental health for infants and young children. So what DOES the BC Guide say about children’s health? It talks about:

– bed-wetting
– Chickenpox
– Colic
– Cradle Cap
– Croup; Diaper Rash
– Diarrhea and Vomiting
– Fever
– Fever Convulsions
– Impetigo
– Pinworms
– Prickly Heat
– Roseola

That’s all folks! These are ALL the Infant/Child health issues BC Ministry of Health deems sufficiently worthy to talk about in the Health Guide hand book going out to hundreds of thousands of BC households. What is OMITTED about children’s health just screams about the serious, systemic problem with government priorities and misplaced ministry mandate for children’s health.

An obvious conclusion about the Health Guide is that the government view of “health” is still very narrowly defined as PHYSICAL health only. Neurological health issues are totally shut out — and there are very serious statutory and constitutional problems that flow from that.

In blatant disregard for the July 2000 BC Supreme Court ruling stating that autism, like cancer, is a HEALTH issue, the MOH Health Guide confirms that a profound, discriminatory attitude prevails in the way government even DEFINES what constitutes children’s health.

In disregard for the BC Supreme Court view on the nature of autism, very young children with autism — yet to be diagnosed with the disorder — are completely ignored in the BC Health Guide. Our children do not even appear as a “blip” on the Health Ministry radar screen. Yet this is the ministry that consumes over 1/3 of your provincial tax dollars and continues to deny your child’s inclusion in the publicly funded health care system.

Some might argue it makes sense that child development issues don’t even make honourable mention in the Health Ministry’s 396 page Health Guide. After all, autism treatment is the responsibility of the Ministry for Children and Families. This would be a compelling argument except for the thorny and inconvenient fact that the Health Ministry currently has a mandated and acknowledged responsibility for autism diagnosis and assessment! That’s what they said in court.

So what’s up? Why does the user-friendly BC Health guide received in the mail today only spend 21 out of 396 pages on “Infant and Child Health”? How come a meager 5.3 percent of Health Guide pages devoted to children? Why do they not at least mention some of the SYMPTOMS of developmental children’s health issues parents should be looking for? The simple MOH fig leaf: “it’s not our problem, talk to the Children’s Ministry”.

In 1997, the Government of British Columbia transferred responsibility for children with developmental issues out of the Ministry of Health into The Ministry for Children and Families — a Ministry created to deal with social problems (MCF was formerly a division of the Ministry of Social Services). Even though MOH pays for autism diagnosis and assessment, they are on-record regarding policy, that children’s developmental health (autism treatment in particular) is the responsibility of Ministry for Children and Families — a Ministry set up for child protection, not health care issues.

An important part of the BC Supreme Court's reasons for judgment in the July 2000 autism ruling is opinion that child and youth mental health programs should never have been transferred to the Children’s Ministry. But that is where they remain. How many synonyms can we think of for government incompetence — and intransigence?

BC Supreme Court states (Auton et al. v. BC Government, July 2000):

“[58] Dr. Thomas Barnett, who is the child psychiatry representative on the B.C. Psychiatric Association, described the transfer of child and youth mental health programmes from MOH to MCF in 1997 as "an expensive experiment gone wrong." At the community level, he sees no benefits resulting from the transfer, in large part because the individuals who make policy within MCF and determine what services are available for autistic children lack training in psychiatry, psychology or behavioural intervention.”

The Health Guide actually does talk about one health problem that is relevant to some parents of children with autism. There is a section about Irritable Bowel Syndrome (IBS, P. 93). The Guide says, “Symptoms of IBS often increase with stress …”. Of course what the BC Health Guide fails to mention is that for BC parents of children with autism struggling with Children’s Ministry bureaucrats for publicly funded autism treatment — and battling with school districts for mainstreamed educational supports — government is THE major source of pathological stress causing Irritable Bowel Syndrome in mothers of children with autism (this is a best kept government secret so far … anyone interested in doing a landmark study on this womyn’s issue)?

Page 119 of the BC Health Guide DOES give some helpful advice on dealing with “Neck Pain”: the guide states, “Most people occasionally feel … a ‘kink’ in the neck caused by tension … or irritation …”

Even with the helpful BC Health Guide, I still haven’t figured out how to deal with the awful “pain-in-the-neck” caused by MCF’s social workers.

Regards,
Isaac (Miki’s Dad)

[Deleted User]

I wanted to address this thread, since it closely mirrors the situation in Ontario.
There truely does seem to be such a division in camps between parents on how to best handle " government and beurocrats".
How do we effectively communicate our message which for me is that children are knowingly being harmed by our elected representatives, have been now for years and in many places accross this wonderful country continue to have their Rights Violated and their worth diminished to less than a cow.
I think what I have learned from Sabrina is that we need ALL types of people in this fight for these amazing children. We need people like myself who says things that make people very uncomfortable, but I will be the first to admit, I would not be the person you would want at a negotiation between their camp and ours…I would bring paint balls and water balloons among other things…but their are parents who have the skills and the reserve to deal with things on that manner.
I do firmly believe that pursuing legal action is paramount to REALLY changing the continuing violation of our children. Although I am not part of the law suit in Ontario, I fully support their actions and really am not too concerned what the liberals think or the NDP for that matter. The reason I say this is because do you not think that they realize the suffering , the total disregard and the abandonment of innocent CHILDREN. They do and frankly in my efforts to send out my statement in Ontario some of the PC's were disgusted by their own party.
If it were their children who were thrown out like yesterdays trash you can BET your *** they would be suing too and hoping you understood why.
We as parents are not doing anything wrong. We are with conviction, pride and compassion for innocent CHILDREN trying to correct a horrible and inhumane action that we have bestowed upon our own Canadian CHILDREN.
You don't have to soften your immage " to make them understand and see"….be who you are, take your role what ever that role may be…bomb thrower, negotiater, educator, legal leader and think about one thing… so far diplomacy and playing nice have moved us only in minute steps…
Its true that their are many ways to skin a cat and choke that cat with cream…
and I do understand the point that Andy was trying to make, but Andy realize this CHILDREN are still being harmed daily in one of the highest standard of living countries in the world and I doubt their is one " human" being that would not realize our frustration and agony and fault us for our intensity. After all we are talking about little beautiful CHILDREN, not vehicle recalls.

[Author]

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