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This area is for discussions in general topics.

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[Timothy Ralphs]

I was wondering if anyone had any experience teaching music to a child on the spectrum. I would guess that an ABA approach would work in this area too. Does anyone know if there is a program available or a teacher who has had success?
Thanks,
Tim Ralphs (Sebastian's Dad)

[Susan Burns]

hey Christine…please contact me, at your convenience. my deaf 11 year old with autism needs another therapist. his academics are very delayed but definitely emerging. he teaches simple cooking to the deaf kindegarten class regularly…..how well do you sign?……please contact me…Susan spbpt@hotmail.com 604-467-8313

[Susan Burns]

hey Christine…please contact me, at your convenience. my deaf 11 year old with autism needs another therapist. his academics are very delayed but definitely emerging. he teaches simple cooking to the deaf kindegarten class regularly…..how well do you sign?……please contact me…Susan spbpt@hotmail.com 604-467-8313

[Deleted User]

Hello everyone, I have recently discovered a little about ABA (very little) and was wondering where a person may find out more info, and where to potentially train to be a therapist? I am not completely "green" I do currently support an adult who has Autism, and do posess a Community Support Worker certificate, first aide, sign language skills, …etc. Any info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

[Deleted User]

Just to add to my post regarding having a "waitlist of therapists" (I actually only have one waiting now). The two cent responder implied that parents wouldn't be able to secure team members this way. I presume you mean that team therapists would feel threatened having others training and "in waiting". I would be stupid to get rid of one of my fully trained therapists so that I could take on a green one. My therapists are good and I tell them that.

No, in fact,I believe my therapists are more relieved that we have therapists in waiting. There is nothing more stressful for my team than to have to cover shifts for someone who is sick or had to leave suddenly. My therapists have full schedules and most are students.

I have told my therapists (in writing) that even if they tell me they are thinking of moving on to another job or school and want to leave my team, I would let them keep working as long as they were doing good therapy. And they would continue to work until they finally found a different position and gave me final notice. Most of my therapists are in their early 20s and life is just going to be transitional at this age. I have learned that good judgment and references does not mean even the best of young adults know what they want in life.

By the way, having a waiting list is not an "eviable position", it is a position anyone can work for. I put postings up at colleges, teaching assistant programs, ECE programs, and my latest addition to the team came from a restaurant that we frequent. I ask anyone that looks like they may be good working with kids. I will never wait until I need a therapist. I will keep looking for new people and I will pass them on to other local teams if I don't take them on my own team right away.

I think the biggest problem with finding therapists in this province is just getting word out that this is something people can do. I would like it if we all put the word out so that children are not going without their prescribed
therapy hours because of lack of therapists.

As for free training. I, in fact, paid for my 15 week training as a teacher. I did not GET paid. I even taught classes with out the supervising teacher in the room. Unlike my trainees who are always supervised by one of my paid therapists. The trainee is not working for me. I am providing an opportunity to learn about ABA therapy. The minute a person works alone with my child, I pay them for their time.

I have never heard of signing something that says you are volunteering. If anyone can tell me where this law is written I will see to it that I get all future trainees to sign such a document. Some people must use volunteers only to run their programs. Has anyone who does this had their volunteer therapists sign documents?

Nancy (Casey's mom)

[Deleted User]

In response to Nancy's post;

I think you are on target with the average pay scale for therapist (especially green). I wonder however, how many people (including parents) have started a job that required them to get trained and they didn't get paid for it??

By law, you must pay an employee for the hours they have put in even though they are being trained. Also by law in this province no notice is required by the employee or employer to dismiss within the first three months of starting a new position (this is the legal probationary period).

I know families running an ABA program is not categorized as a business but many therapists that are working also have rent to pay, food to buy etc… and unless they have signed an agreement volunteering their time you cannot legally withhold wages.

Yes, you take a chance; that I will not dispute, but it is a fact of life for "any" employer. Hopefully the parent's good judgement and reference checking will prevent a scenerio where the therapist is just trained and leaves shortly afterwards. You are lucky that you have a waiting list (an enviable position) – in my experience families that take the same route often have difficulty securing team members. Just my two cents.

[Deleted User]

I have two responses, one for Luoma with the screaming 3 year old and the other is for David and Lori regarding therapist wages.

First the screaming. My son used to whine loudly a lot when he was 2. When we put him on an almost gluten and casein free diet, the screaming (and runny poos) stopped. I think he was very uncomfortable due to a gut problem, it wasn't his autism.

However, when he was almost 4 he started whining in a different way. Whining for things he wanted. He also whined in bed in the morning. We have a manding program where we get Casey to ask for a desired object or play action and he doesn't get what he wants until he utters a sound. We later shape the sound to get closer to the desired word but initially we just want him to try to ask for what he wants.

I must continue this program after therapy hours. So, when he starts whining in the kitchen, I say "say milk" (or whatever), or every morning as I walk in the bed room I say "say mama" and wait for his response before I go to him. I am finding that the yelling or screaming is subsiding. He is now greeting me in the morning with "morning" or "mama" (I can't quite tell which one, but at least it's not screaming). Everything takes time, but with effort and a good plan, you can overcome most issues.

As for what to pay therapists. Two years ago, I started at $8 per hour. I am now starting at $9 per hour and after 3 months, I put them up to $10. My more experienced therapists are paid $11 or $12 depending on how long they have been with me. You have to find the balance between what you can afford and I always worry about exploiting such a wonderful group of people.

I think though, it is most important not to put yourself in a position of desparately needing therapists. So I have started the following:

I now no longer pay for training. I never thought I would be able to do this but I find it works great. I continually look for new therapists even though I don't need one and I train them for free. If I have an opening, I have a therapist ready to step in. If I don't, the therapist is free to join another team (and can take with them their training). I am much more relaxed now that I have a "waiting list" of people who want to train. Unlike last year, when I lost 2 people within a month and had no replacements ready. I have also wasted a lot of money training people who left within 1 month, or people I paid to train who didn't work out.

Hope this helps

Nancy (Casey's mom)

[Deleted User]

Actually, I doubt we disagree as much as you may initially believe. As I mentioned in my first post that started this whole tangent, the main issue is redirecting the behaviour into a more appropriate form. Perhaps I put too much emphasis on the use of aversives (or even adversives, if one was a little too lazy) which was a mistake on my part.

It is up to each therapist / consultant, of course, to discern the difference between willful non-compliance and an attempt at communication. In my specifc case, we know it's willful non-compliance… :). Do aversives work on all children? Of course not, but if it's a technique that your team believes may be useful to your program, then perhaps my experiences may be of some help, if not, fair enough as well. Thanks for the response.

[Deleted User]

To Smith3,
In response to your last post clarifying the use of "pepper" it seems obvious that we disagree. As I believe behavior is communication, and what someone may see as being "willfully non-compliant" may be the way a child is telling you they do not want to do something. I believe all possible reasons for the behavior need to be explored in order to better undersand why its happening. Aversives seem based on the premise of "control" rather than teaching self-control.
Again this is my opinion, and it seems we disagree on "best practice" issues to support all persons.

[Deleted User]

I want to first off apologize if I've offended
anyone, that certainly was not my intention.

In response to the not so polite reply to my
post, let's try to keep things civil, making a
connection from pepper to tobasco sauce to
torture is a little uncalled for, wouldn't you
agree?

Let me state what I had assumed was
obvious, and I thank Mr. Stelmaschuck for
pointing out, that these are techniques that
should only be implemented under
consultation from your child's therapists,
consultants, and of course family.

I merely wished to offer some solutions which
I had gained some success with (each to a
varying degree with various children), never
was it my intention that there are the only four
methods of dealing with screaming (well,
besides the torture i suppose — hopefully that
won't start anything)

Just to clarify my previous post, pepper is
used in one of my child's programs as a last
resort (after extinction, time outs, and reverse
cost are employed), and the child receives the
aversive only after she has been warned, and
when she knows the expectations and is
willfully being non-compliant. This is not a
daily, or even weekly occurance.

[Author]

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