[FEAT BC Admin]

This area is for discussions in general topics.

Topic

[Deleted User]

I am wondering if anyone can help me with an odd request. We are using a GameBoy as a reward for our son in ABA. It has been a fabulous tool. My son uses the Digimon game and we don't know how to get past where we currently are in playing the game. I am concerned he will lose interest soon. Is there anyone out there who knows someone who can play this game well? (The instructions are not very helpful). If so could they e-mail me at katzalay@hotmail.com

Thanks!

Stephanie Hacksel

[Deleted User]

To Joyce Dassonville:

Here's another one to add to your list.

I for one am getting tired of the patronizing tone of your (needlessly)long messages, as well as your repeated attempts to advertise for your firm. You talk about the spirit of the msg. board rules; your ads violate the spirit w/o any doubt, but maybe not the letter.

I don't mind the lively, sometimes emotional debates. I certainly appreciate when people come to the defense of ABA (or IBI, if that's what you want to call it). What will scare me off is not these, but contributions such as yours: pedantic, patronizing, wordy and condescending. Although I do appreciate the work of the lawyers involved in the Auton case, who wants to hear another lawyer yapping on in this forum, lecturing us on how to behave?

However I do support your fight against the NS government.

Recognize that this is a lively group. If you don't like people calling a spade a spade,or occasional verbal spats, then get out! I for one would be relieved.

[Deleted User]

As a contributor to this FEAT Board, I try to keep in mind
the needs of parents of the newly diagnosed children. These
parents are very vulnerable to influence and suggestions. In
desperation and in the face of depression, anger and a
severe lack of information; the parents of newly diagnosed
children are unable to weight the pros and cons of the
various options that will be placed before them without
concrete and specific information about what the
scientifically researched treatment for autism really is.
In the best interest of their children who have only their
parents to advocate for them, it is of vital importance that
the FEAT Board is able to disseminate relevant and useful
information to these parents, many of who are outside of the
lower mainland and many of whom knew almost nothing about
autism before they received their child's diagnosis.

First, I want to say that after 3 years of the Nova Scotia
Autism Society meetings; the debate of issues related to the
treatment of children with autism in BC is incomparable. In
Nova Scotia, the majority of parents do not have the energy
or the willingness to fight for ABA/IBI therapy for their
children; instead, they spend their time comparing stories
about their unfair fate.

The unwillingness of Nova Scotia families to joint the fight
for ABA/IBI for their own children meant that I single
handily have taken on the government of NS, the Halifax
Regional School Board, the IWK Children's Hospital (the most
popular hospital in the Atlantic provinces), as well as the
paediatrician and the psychologist who neglected to tell us
that ABA/IBI even excited, let alone was a "medically
necessary treatment".

While our family has returned to BC after a 10-year period
back East, (as we could no longer secure any qualified
consultant, let alone find a skilled therapist to work with
our child in Nova Scotia), I still intend to take my Nova
Scotia law suit to trial and to the Court of Appeal if
necessary. I will also start any additional law suits here
in BC that prove to be necessary in order to secure full
funding for my daughter's ongoing ABA/IBI program.

Much to the distaste of many of the parents who are fighting
the fight for funding in the Auton case, I will be using the
term IBI / Intensive Behavioural Intervention in many of my
postings and communications. I recognize that many of you
are of the opinion that IBI is something "BAD", but I
disagree. The term IBI is used in the Behavioural Analytic
field on a regular basis all across North America. Board
Certified Behavioural Analyst's across North America (mostly
in the US of course) routinely use the term IBI.

In fact the title of Lovaas' most recent book: "Teaching
Individuals with Developmental Delays: Basic Intervention
Techniques" (2003) ISBN 0-89079-889-3, refers to
"Intervention". He did not name his book ABA Techniques, but
instead choose the word Intervention as part of the title. I
am quite sure that not one advocate behind the Auton case
would question Lovaas' choice of title for his new book.

To my knowledge, BC is the only place where parents of
children with autism have such distaste for the term IBI. I
understand that this loathing of the term IBI grew out of
the position the government took in the Auton case, and the
fact that after the Supreme Court judgement, the government,
under the name of IBI, began to put into place and/or
implement programs which do not even remotely come close to
"best practices". To add insult to injury, the government
then used the same people who testified against ABA in
Auton, to oversee their new programs.

The inappropriate use of the acronym IBI, and the relating
of the term IBI to below "best practice" standard programs
by the BC government does not make the acronym IBI, in and
of itself, a bad term. In my opinion, this situation is a
credibility issue of the government-based programs, not a
reflection on the term IBI, which is widely used in the
Behavioural Analytic field and by numerous Board Certified
Behavioural Analysts, including Lovaas himself.

What needs to be achieved is the implementation of proper
programs covered by our Health Care cards. I really do not
care if the government puts a program in place and calls it
the Christmas Tree Approach, so long as the program is fully
funded, meets the test of "best practices", "medically
necessary treatment" and is based upon proven scientific
research. Parents must also have control over which service
provider/consultant they wish to go to, just like we all
choose our own family physicians and they are all still
covered by our Health Care cards.

Second, I want to say that the energy and willingness of
families in BC to not only fight the government for the
medically necessary treatment our children with autism need,
but to also be discourteous and to throw insults, both
directly and indirectly at others, including services
providers (of whatever services) that they do not 100% agree
with boggles the mind. The personal attacks straight up,
and the personal attacks in vague disguises, is nothing
short of amazing, especially considering the rules of this
FEAT Board on posting messages:

1) Be courteous to each other. We ask you to refrain from
abusive language, insults and profanity (swearing).
2) Personal attacks are not permissible in the FEAT BC
Discussion Group. We respect all opinions even if we
disagree with them.

I really have not seen a lot of compliance with the spirit
of the above quoted rules let alone the letter of those
rules, in any of the back and forth discussions when two
people are disagreeing on any issue, either recently or in
past discussions I have read on the FEAT Board.

In my opinion the biggest losers of the back and forth
discussions on this FEAT Board, which are often thinly
veiled attacks on the services of other providers, are the
parents of newly diagnosed children. I see no big winners.
It looks like a loose loose situation to me.

If a parent of a newly diagnosed child was to log on the
FEAT Board and be confronted with the tone and quality of
the discussions that show no regard for the spirit of the
FEAT Board rules, there is a high chance that they may never
log on a second time. Those parents, who most need a forum
such as a FEAT Board, to learn about the medically necessary
treatment that their children need and are entitled to, will
have lost a tremendous opportunity.

These new and scared parents, who could most benefit from
valuable information will be driven away from the FEAT Board
and be left to have only one source of information available
to them. That source of information will be the very
government providers that the long-standing members of this
FEAT Board have spent so much time, money and energy
fighting.

If there is any "winner" of the postings on the FEAT Board
where people are warring, in a manner that shows no
consideration of the rules of the FEAT Board, that "winner"
would be the government service providers, who testified
against the children in the Auton case. They will become the
first line of contact and the ones who will greet the
parents of newly diagnosed children, with statements of
understanding and sympathy, offer to come to their home and
generally behave in a courteous and friendly manner. By
warring and carrying on in abusive and insulting debates the
persons participating in this type of posting have only
succeeded in driving away the very audience they most want
to reach.

The quality of information that could be disseminated on
this public FEAT Board is not reflected in what is actually
posted. In fact, sometimes the quality of the discussions
has at times sounded a bit like what I have observed when
excerpts from the House of Commons debates are televised as
part of the evening news.

Why do people posting on the FEAT Board spend so much time
and energy circumventing the spirit of the posted rules,
when the biggest accomplishment they will end up with is
driving away new parents, with little knowledge and
experience. The opposing points of view (the people on each
side of the issue) are not going to change each other's
minds with the nature of the discussions I have seen. I
cannot even imagine that anyone actually believes that by
posting one more degrading comeback that they will change
anyone's opinion. Opinions and views can be changed, but it
will not happen with use of degrading and insulting
postings.

The best way to prove a point is to provide overwhelming
evidence to support your position, often in terms that your
audience is capable of understanding, as opposed to the
terms used in the scientific community, and to spend as
little time as possible replying to the position disagreed
with. By replying repeatedly to opposing positions, all you
accomplish is to give that opposing view more airtime.

In fact, all of us, as part of our ABA/IBI programs for our
children, reinforce the positive and ignore the negative
with our children with autism. Why is it that parents of
children who have fought so hard for funding for ABA/IBI
services for their children, have not learned to apply the
same techniques to their efforts to disseminate information
about ABA/IBI? I can think of many examples in my own life
where I could better have dealt with the situation at hand
by using ABA/IBI techniques and I did not. Perhaps in our
middle age, we do not learn as fast as our children with
autism do!

As I stated at the beginning of this long posting, these
parents of newly diagnosed children are very vulnerable to
influence and suggestions. In desperation and in the face of
depression, anger and a severe lack of information; the
parents of newly diagnosed children are unable to weight the
pros and cons of the various options that will be placed
before them without concrete and specific information about
what the scientifically researched treatment for autism
really is. In the best interest of their children who have
only their parents to advocate for them, it is of vital
importance that the FEAT Board is able to disseminate
relevant and useful information to these parents, many of
who are outside of the lower mainland and many of whom knew
almost nothing about autism before they received their
child's diagnosis.

In closing, the acrimonious tone of much of the posted
information on the FEAT Board, in my opinion, serves no
productive purpose and is actually driving away parents who
are new to the world of autism, new to what is and what is
not "scientifically researched and proven treatment", and
the most in need of useful and relevant information.

The lead taken by the parents behind the Auton case (and the
Anderson case) has cost those parents a tremendous personal
sacrifice. Because of the Auton case, I have been able to
put my own single-handed fight in Nova Scotia "on hold",
knowing that many of the issues I am fighting for will be
resolved by the SCC in Auton. I have the parents in the
Auton case to thank. Without their sacrifice, my case in
Nova Scotia would truly have been a single-handed one.

The fight should continue until we have accomplished our
goal of ensuring that scientifically proven ABA/IBI
treatment is available for all children with autism. Lets
focus our efforts on promoting ABA/IBI as a medically
necessary treatment, and a constitutional right of all of
our children.

Joyce Dassonville GN LLB
Family Law and Health & Disability Lawyer

# 114 – 8532 120th Street, Surrey, British Columbia, V3W
3N5

Phone: (604) 598-8623
Fax: (604) 598-8624
Email: joyce@dassonvillelaw.ca
http://www.dassonvillelaw.ca

[Ryan McMiller]

Please help us!!

Hello every one. I have a daughter. She is autistic and becoming 6. I contacted Early Autism Project last year, however, the result of her cognitive test could not meet their minimum score. Since last year we have got her several kinds of therapy from various providers. We are not satisfied with those services.

We really want to get ABA therapy. Please let us know any provider or consultant rendering ABA therapy other than EAP

Please e mail me: pine50@hotmail.com

[Deleted User]

On September the FEAT BOARD ADMINISTRATION posted a notice which contained the following:

“With respect to lawyers that are members of this group, we very much welcome and appreciate your opinions and thoughts regarding the ongoing legal battles we are fighting against government on behalf of children with autism. The contribution of robust discussions on legal topics helps many members of the group, but we ask that posts please exclude advertising for professional services. Other professionals such as autism consultants, speech and language pathologists, accountants, and so on, are similarly not permitted to advertise professional services on the FEAT BC board. Autism therapists and soon-to-be therapists i.e., paraprofessionals, are the only notable exception. Thank you all for your understanding and cooperation in this matter and for making the forum such a valuable meeting place.”

Clearly this posting by the FEAT BOARD ADMINISTRATION was referring to my earlier posting dated September 10th 2003, wherein I had offered to assist families at a significantly reduced cost, that is, essentially at cost. I have to admit that it never occurred to me that it would be objectionable to the FEAT Administration, or to anyone else for that matter, to offer to include families in a law suit to obtain funding for their ABA/IBI program that I intend to commence in any event, on my daughter's behalf.

At the time of my posting on September 10, 2003, I was aware of NO FEAT BOARD Rules which my September 10th, 2003 posting in any way contravened. It certainly was never my intention to break any rules of the FEAT BOARD.

However, after reading the Board Administration's post about excluding advertising for professional services from the FEAT Board, I once again reviewed the administrative portions of the posted information. I could not find any paragraph that was relevant to your comments on advertising for professional services. I could not find any reference whatsoever in the publicized FEAT BC Discussion Group Rules, that my September 10th, 2003 posting in anyway contravened. Not only was there no public rule against advertising for lawyers, there was no public rule against advertising of any kind. Furthermore, there was no rule allowing the posting of Autism therapists and soon-to-be therapists i.e., paraprofessionals, as the only notable exception.

In particular the publicly posted Rules for member’s postings are included on the FEAT web site as follows:

FEAT BC Discussion Group Rules

To be a member in good standing, please respect the following:

1. Be courteous to each other. We ask you to refrain from abusive language, insults and profanity (swearing).
2. Personal attacks are not permissible in the FEAT BC Discussion Group. We respect all opinions even if we disagree with them.
3. This is NOT a confidential discussion forum. Responsibility for posts to the FEAT BC Discussion Group lies entirely with the author who posted the original message.
4. The FEAT BC Discussion Group has been designed to discuss any topic relevant to home-based A.B.A. programs (including Government funding and school issues). When we use the term A.B.A., we mean discrete-trial-based interventions (also referred to as "applied behaviour analysis" or "Lovaas" behavioural treatment) for autism and related disorders. This is not an appropriate forum to discuss the latest, unscientific “cure of the day”. If you would like to discuss alternative “options”, please go to THE AUTISM MAIL LIST.

There was clearly nothing in the publicly posted Rules for members that relates in any way to advertising or to my offer to assist other families to obtain their court ordered ABA/IBI funding at essentially my cost.

Could the FEAT BOARD Administration please post the existing "unpublicized" rules that they were referring to, so that this matter could be clarified for all professionals, including myself? When did these existing unpublicized rules come into effect and how were members supposed to know about them if they were not publicized?

Joyce Dassonville GN LLB
Family Law and Health & Disability Law

Address:# 114 – 8532 120th Street
Surrey, British Columbia
V3W 3N5
Phone: (604) 598-8623
Fax: (604) 598-8624
Email: joyce@dassonvillelaw.ca
Web Page:www.dassonvillelaw.ca

[Debra Antifaev]

Hi everyone,

Following the theme of "Substantiated Treatment" options, I would like to offer my advice on a worthwhile workshop to see this year.
Dr. Bobby Newman is speaking on October 24th and I believe he will be well worth the price of admission.
So, if you can only afford to see one fabulous, informative workshop this year…….

[FEAT BC Admin]

09/12/03

TO: All discussion group members
FROM: Board Admin.
RE: Forum rules
******************************************

In view of recent posts made to the FEAT BC discussion board, this note is a reminder of rules that govern participation in the group.

This is not an appropriate forum to discuss unsubstantiated treatments for autism, including dietary interventions such as the wheat, gluten, and casein free diet.

The FEAT BC Discussion Group has been designed to discuss any topic relevant to home-based A.B.A. programs (including Government funding and school issues). When we use the term A.B.A., we mean discrete-trial-based interventions (also referred to as "applied behaviour analysis" or "Lovaas" behavioural treatment) for autism and related disorders.

With respect to lawyers that are members of this group, we very much welcome and appreciate your opinions and thoughts regarding the ongoing legal battles we are fighting against government on behalf of children with autism. The contribution of robust discussions on legal topics helps many members of the group, but we ask that posts please exclude advertising for professional services.

Other professionals such as autism consultants, speech and language pathologists, accountants, and so on, are similarly not permitted to advertise professional services on the FEAT BC board. Autism therapists and soon-to-be therapists i.e., paraprofessionals, are the only notable exception.

Thank you all for your understanding and cooperation in this matter and for making the forum such a valuable meeting place.

Board Admin.

[Courtney Mapson]

ATTENTION ALL PARENTS:

I am posting this ad of behalf of a family I work with;

ASBC Tri-Cities Community Group Meeting

Tuesday, September 16th, 7-9pm at the Coquitlam Public Library – City Centre Branch, 3001 Burlington Drive. It is behind Coquitlam Centre
and across the street from the City Centre Public Swimming Pool.

We are pleased to have Ms. Cathie Camley as a guest speaker. A few of the positions Ms. Camley holds are Current Chair – Education Committee for
LDA-BC, Representative for LDA-BC With Coalition for Special Education, and on the Board of Directors-Federation for Invisible Disabilities.

Ms. Camley is well known for her advocacy work and is the author of Becoming an Effective Advocate for Your Child. She is also the
Author/Facilitator of the Parent Advocacy Training Program. She has recently received
the Queen's Golden Jubilee Medal. Ms. Camley also has personal involvement in the area of parent advocacy in the public school system.

The topic will be on Evaluating Your Child's IEP

1. Parent as Case manager

2. The 5 essential elements of an IEP

3. How to Evaluate Your Child's IEP

4. The SMART IEP Tool

5. What to Do When Things Go Wrong

This meeting will be chalk full of useful information as we enter into IEP season and there will a question and answer period at the end of Ms. Camley's presentation.

We welcome parents from all areas of the Lower Mainland, especially Vancouver and Burnaby where there is no ASBC Community group.

If you have any questions or need more specific directions, please feel free to e-mail me at eva@evaleeassociates.com. If you want a return
call, please provide your telephone number.

We look forward to seeing everyone at our first meeting of the season.

Eva Lee-Pourzargham

ASBC Tri-Cities Facilitator

[John Esson]

We are a North Van family looking for a therapist to join our team which is supervised by EAP. The shifts we would like filled are late afternoons (3/4 p.m. to 6/7 p.m.) and possibly week-ends. Our son is four and has been with EAP for a year. He is a very verbal fun boy who needs help with social skills. If you'd like to join our team please call Mary or John at 604-982-0925.

[Deleted User]

Just a reminder about the upcoming FEAT of BC Basic Therapist workshop:

I’ve received a few emails and phone calls regarding registration for this workshop and thought I would post on the board to clarify that registration is through FEAT of BC. The registration form can be downloaded from:

http://www.featbc.org/downloads/abtw.pdf

This is a great opportunity for all those SEA’s and teachers who are working with a child in the classroom who is in an ABA program in the home, as well as Students who are interested in training to become a therapist and parents who have a child in an ABA program to learn more about:

Discrete Trial Teaching
Prompting
Reinforcement
Teaching Approaches
Data collection
Behavioural Terminology
Generalization and Maintenance
Professionalism and Confidentiality

In addition there are lots of hands on learning opportunities including actual practice time (with fellow classmates) implementing the strategies taught while being supervised and overseen by two Senior behavioural instructors. The feedback we have received on this hands on learning time has been phenomenal!

(A big thank you to all those from the Nanaimo workshop who have sent glowing emails about the last workshop!)

Please note: these workshops fill up quickly so for all of you who have expressed interest in coming but have not yet registered, I would highly recommend that you do so soon as to avoid being disappointed.

Hope that answers all of the questions I have been receiving from people, see you at the workshop!

Michelle Karren

[Author]

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